Removal of stain from Heresy II's

[mark electro]

I just recently picked up a pair of Heresy II's that are stained Cherry. I would like to bring them back to origional finish (unfinished). Is there enough thickness in the vanier to sand them lightly? Will sanding remove the stain? Is there a better way? Or should I just live with it and apply a new coat of stain?

I bought them for $50. All drivers work fine and other than being stained; the cabinits are in excellent shape. The cherry color just doesen't match my other furnishings.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,

Mark

[Mic Stiffy]

If you try to sand out the stain its very probable that you will sand through the veneer. I would use a stripper (Sherwin Williams product, Flood, or Benjamin Moore strip-x). If you want to remove it really fast, take out all of the inards, apply the product, wait 15-10 min (keep it wet), then pressure wash it off. That is a bit over kill but it will remove it fast. Just make sure you don't get much on the inside of the box and nice even, continous stroke with the washer. Even the pressure washer can cut through the veneer. Or you could just use a stripper and srub to death, thats always fun. Just take caution when using those stippers, the good ones are usually very toxic and can burn your skin (trust me). After you've removed the top coat and stain, sand lightly with some 120 then very lightly with some 220 if you want. Then I would recommend a transtint dye stain (water based). Wipe on two coats. Let dry 24 hours. Apply top coat if desired. If you want to skip the stain just use General finishes Seal-a-cell clear. Amazing wipe-on product. If you want to topcoat your stain to protect it and pop out the grain go with General Finishes Arm-R-Seal topcoat, which is also amazing. However, you shouldn't spray these products. Obviously, one could talk/type for hours on finishing. However, these are my recommendations. Heres a bass drum I finished with these products.

Hope that helps,

Jeremy

[Mic Stiffy]

This is pissing me off, I can't add this stupid picture from my Kodak software.

[WMcD]

I'm a little concerned by your description about what you're starting with. One interpretation is that they started life as unfinished and someone added cherry stain, and who knows what clear finish. But maybe that is not the case.

Is there is a sticker reading HOL (which would be Heresy Oak Lacquer?) I don't know how HII's are labled. Such sticker info will give us information important to how you approach the project.

Take a look at http://www.klipsch.com/products/discontinued/details/heresy-ii.aspx from the main Klipsch website. It shows that the only unfinished HII was oak. The factory finishes were all lacquer.

Maybe you have a light oak from the factory? The sticker initials will tell.

In any event, I would recommend not messing with them unless a compelling need for esthetics balances the work and risk of a poor result.

Wm McD

[mark electro]

If you try to sand out the stain its very probable that you will sand through the veneer. I would use a stripper (Sherwin Williams product, Flood, or Benjamin Moore strip-x). If you want to remove it really fast, take out all of the inards, apply the product, wait 15-10 min (keep it wet), then pressure wash it off. That is a bit over kill but it will remove it fast. Just make sure you don't get much on the inside of the box and nice even, continous stroke with the washer. Even the pressure washer can cut through the veneer. Or you could just use a stripper and srub to death, thats always fun. Just take caution when using those stippers, the good ones are usually very toxic and can burn your skin (trust me). After you've removed the top coat and stain, sand lightly with some 120 then very lightly with some 220 if you want. Then I would recommend a transtint dye stain (water based). Wipe on two coats. Let dry 24 hours. Apply top coat if desired. If you want to skip the stain just use General finishes Seal-a-cell clear. Amazing wipe-on product. If you want to topcoat your stain to protect it and pop out the grain go with General Finishes Arm-R-Seal topcoat, which is also amazing. However, you shouldn't spray these products. Obviously, one could talk/type for hours on finishing. However, these are my recommendations. Heres a bass drum I finished with these products.

Hope that helps,

Jeremy

Thanks for the advice Jeremy. Helps a lot. So stripper won't cause harm to the cabinets in the long term?

They almost look good enough to re- stain. Other than that the cabinets and drivers are probably 9/10 condition. I hope the guy that sold them to me doesen't look up how much they are going for.

[mark electro]

I'm a little concerned by your description about what you're starting with. One interpretation is that they started life as unfinished and someone added cherry stain, and who knows what clear finish. But maybe that is not the case.

Is there is a sticker reading HOL (which would be Heresy Oak Lacquer?) I don't know how HII's are labled. Such sticker info will give us information important to how you approach the project.

Take a look at http://www.klipsch.com/products/discontinued/details/heresy-ii.aspx from the main Klipsch website. It shows that the only unfinished HII was oak. The factory finishes were all lacquer.

Maybe you have a light oak from the factory? The sticker initials will tell.

In any event, I would recommend not messing with them unless a compelling need for esthetics balances the work and risk of a poor result.

Wm McD

Sorry let me clairify.

1988 HB-R.

Not factory; definately a homeowner trying to match a bookcase. Kind of crappy stain job on sides and top and cabinet edges in front; but not the back or bottom.

But the good news: cabinets and drivers are in exceptional shape. Cabinet corners are perfect!!!! (all eight of them) And the price of $50. a pair almost makes the stain look good.

[Marvel]

And the price of $50. a pair almost makes the stain look good.

I hate you....

Not really, as that is a good deal. I love my HIIs, a black lacquer finish, in very good condition, and a gift from my son. So mine were inexpensive too. []

Bruce

[mark electro]

And the price of $50. a pair almost makes the stain look good.

I hate you....

Not really, as that is a good deal. I love my HIIs, a black lacquer finish, in very good condition, and a gift from my son. So mine were inexpensive too.

Bruce

YES; Free is better and so is the finish. Do you know if there is a way to re-stain without taking the old stain off? Or should I just strip them and start over?

[bhendrix]

a gift from my son. So mine were inexpensive too

Hi Bruce,

Inexpensive . . . .yet priceless. That's a pretty cool son!!

[bhendrix]

Do you know if there is a way to re-stain without taking the old stain off? Or should I just strip them and start over?

Another option is to paint them with black lacquer. Black Heresy's are quite elegant.

[WMcD]

Okay, so now we know they are Heresy I in birch raw.

A long time ago I used Homer Formby products to remove a finish on old furniture (red stained mahogany). It was a free flowing liquid which I presume was acetone and toluene or MEK. It was mostly a matter of washing off the old finish with fine steel wool. Things may have changed.

See http://www.formbys.com/products/

The stuff also leached out some of the stain and did result in clean wood with some remaining tint.

I agree with people who say that if you try to sand out the stain, you might sand through the veneer. My guess is that the stripper will leach out so much of the stain that you will not have to do more -- assuming you're looking at something other than pure birch in the end.

I have not worked on what Klipsch used for birch ply. However, you'll get to some pont where you have to sand lightly or maybe a bit more.

I don't see any reason to think that the top layer of birch in the ply is particularly prone to sand-through. I've made dozens of projects using birch plywood from HD and the good stuff from Woodworld (Plano, Texas).

That sanding was just to get a good surface. It probably correct that the orginal stain job by the previous owner penetrated most of the top layer and indeed, sanding to a depth of unstained veneer is potentially dangerous.

The bottom line here is that after you use a stripper, you'll have some color remaining. I would not try to sand it out. But a light sanding job is not likely to go through the top layer of veneer.

Usual safety advice: Observe all warnings on the stripper, stains, and finish about ventilation, fire hazards, and personal respiratory equipment.

Use a sanding block if sanding by hand. Use low speeds on power sanding equipment.

Wm McD

[mark electro]

Okay, so now we know they are Heresy I in birch raw.

A long time ago I used Homer Formby products to remove a finish on old furnature (red stained mahogany). It was a free flowing liquid which I presume was acetone and toluene or MEK. It was mostly a matter of washing off the old finish with fine steel wool. Things may have changed.

See http://www.formbys.com/products/

The stuff also leached out some of the stain and did result in clean wood with some remaining tint.

I agree with people who say that if you try to sand out the stain, you might sand through the veneer. My guess is that the stripper will leach out so much of the stain that you will not have to do more -- assuming you're looking at something other than pure birch in the end.

I have not worked on what Klipsch used for birch ply. However, you'll get to some pont where you have to sand lightly or maybe a bit more.

I don't see any reason to think that the top layer of birch in the ply is particularly prone to sand-through. I've made dozens of projects using birch plywood from HD and the good stuff from Woodworld (Plano, Texas).

That sanding was just to get a good surface. It probably correct that the orginal stain job by the previous owner penetrated most of the top layer and indeed, sanding to a depth of unstained veneer is potentially dangerous.

The bottom line here is that after you use a stripper, you'll have some color remaining. I would not try to sand it out. But a light sanding job is not likely to go through the top layer of veneer.

Usual safety advice: Observe all warnings on the stripper, stains, and finish about ventilation, fire hazards, and personal respiratory equipment.

Use a sanding block if sanding by hand. Use low speeds on power sanding equipment.

Wm McD

Excelent. This is what I needed to know. My main concern is/ was to not expose the MDF under the vaneer.

Does the stripper cause any long term harm to the vaneer???

[mark electro]

Do you know if there is a way to re-stain without taking the old stain off? Or should I just strip them and start over?

Another option is to paint them with black lacquer. Black Heresy's are quite elegant.

Bill, now that you mention it; Black lacquer is very elegent. I think it might be a good option to cover up the finish I have now.

Would it be very difficult to do. As you may have noticed; I have very limited experience with wood re- finishing. I'm O.K. with a spray can though(LOL).

[fenderbender]

The only way you are going to get them back to the original looking birch raw is to re-veneer them......that being said you can play with the color and lighten it considerably.

If they are oil finish it's much easier, if they are lacquered then you will indeed need to strip off the lacquer finish first with a chemical striper like the above mentioned formers.

if the finish is a hand rubbed oil then start with mineral spirits (this is the base of most stains, they just add pigment) I would start applying the Mineral spirits with 00 steelwool and then wipe off with a cloth towel (you are going to ruin some cheep towels)...you will have to do this several times and then you should notice that a lot of the pigment has been removed....then i would suggest applying a light coat of a "honey" colored stain mixed with 50% mineral spirits. I would do a small area on the bottom of the speaker to see if the color was good so you could adjust if necessary. After the stain has dried, you will want to give it a nice oil finish of tung or teak oil (3-4 coats)

that is what I would do if I wanted them lightened and did not want to re-veneer them......good luck...and just a thought ...if it were me I would remove all the drivers and crossovers...or it could get messy.....

[bhendrix]

I'm O.K. with a spray can though(LOL).

Well, sand 'em smooth and spray away . . . ..[6]

OK, maybe not the bestest way to make 'em black. Do you know any painters from body shops? You may be able to find one that would put a nice automotive-type black lacquer finish on for just a few bucks.

[Dflip]

Strip them clean with a chemical stripper, rubbing with fine steel wool and stipper proof gloves. They sell them at Home Depot. When done if you want to restain them, then you need a neutral or Minwax clear prestain that will seal the softer wood. This allows you to then put on muliple coats until it is uniform. At this point it can be....tung oiled, varnished, hand rubbed urethane or brushed on urethane. The preconditioner/clear coat is important as it deals with edges that absorb stain at a different rate than the rest of the wook. If you don't do this, then you have dark spots and ligher areas. Not good.

[mark electro]

The only way you are going to get them back to the original looking birch raw is to re-veneer them......that being said you can play with the color and lighten it considerably.

If they are oil finish it's much easier, if they are lacquered then you will indeed need to strip off the lacquer finish first with a chemical striper like the above mentioned formers.

if the finish is a hand rubbed oil then start with mineral spirits (this is the base of most stains, they just add pigment) I would start applying the Mineral spirits with 00 steelwool and then wipe off with a cloth towel (you are going to ruin some cheep towels)...you will have to do this several times and then you should notice that a lot of the pigment has been removed....then i would suggest applying a light coat of a "honey" colored stain mixed with 50% mineral spirits. I would do a small area on the bottom of the speaker to see if the color was good so you could adjust if necessary. After the stain has dried, you will want to give it a nice oil finish of tung or teak oil (3-4 coats)

that is what I would do if I wanted them lightened and did not want to re-veneer them......good luck...and just a thought ...if it were me I would remove all the drivers and crossovers...or it could get messy.....

Definately getting closer to my point. I would like to lighten and remove most of the "cherry" from the cherry color stain. Honey color would be perfect but I could work with a wallnut or even a maple.

[mark electro]

I'm O.K. with a spray can though(LOL).

Well, sand 'em smooth and spray away . . . ..

OK, maybe not the bestest way to make 'em black. Do you know any painters from body shops? You may be able to find one that would put a nice automotive-type black lacquer finish on for just a few bucks.

Bill, my friends at the body shop will want to put ghost flames on my cabinets. Actualy might be cool however still wouldent match or blend with the rest of the decor in my listening area.

[mark electro]

Strip them clean with a chemical stripper, rubbing with fine steel wool and stipper proof gloves. They sell them at Home Depot. When done if you want to restain them, then you need a neutral or Minwax clear prestain that will seal the softer wood. This allows you to then put on muliple coats until it is uniform. At this point it can be....tung oiled, varnished, hand rubbed urethane or brushed on urethane. The preconditioner/clear coat is important as it deals with edges that absorb stain at a different rate than the rest of the wook. If you don't do this, then you have dark spots and ligher areas. Not good.

Your not good part is about where they are now.

[fenderbender]

Hey Mark.....if you strip them with the Mineral spirits like I suggested a walnut stain would look great.....you could start buy adding 25% stain 75% mineral spirit and slowly add more to achieve the desired results.

I have a pair of birch that are stained a light walnut and then 4 coats of Watco brand tung oil.....I think they look stunning...they have a light brown -honey golden hue.....