Colin Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 Ben, use one of the rig legs for a bass tube, yu will get really killer deep bass, just posistion your house at the sweet spot at the end of the bass leg! the break in period thing has me stumped, especially with big woofer which do not move very much, the burnin thing started with little drivers that had stiff cones and thick surrounds, your woofers barely move, Heresey's do need sub-woofer to balance out the high end, the treble is more real than most of us can stand, if you don't want the fight with the Hereseys, the smoothest most liquid mid-range (and the only impressive thing I have heard on cones)was on KM Lab Cobalt and Electra models ... ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 The break-in or burn-in is very real for most electronics, some far worse than others. I cant believe anyone these days has NOT experienced this aspect... Capacitors. Wire. Drivers. Woofers. Tweeters. Etc. Almost ALL speaker manufacturers, better amp manufacturers, wire manufactures, capacitor manufacturers etc mention burn in time. Wire companies actually will pre-burn your cables on devices like the Mobie. How many manufacturers have you seen list the burn in time of their amps at 100hours minimum? How many speaker companies? Most now do it in the manual. Some, like Cary, have it listed with each component on their website. But electronics must pass a signal to break in and if few people within this forum have noticed their electronics improve over the first 100 hours or so, then we are in trouble here. Capacitors actually take some time to form and given the monster electrolytics, this takes time. Indeed, if you take something like the Black Gate WKZ cap, it takes up to 100 hours almost EVERY turn on cycle to perform its best. Almost all signal-carrying components improve after this initial conditioning. I surely dont want 20 responses refuting this; we all realize it is a hotly contested area. But if anyone is going to be reviewing equipment for various online magazines, I would keep this view hidden! Heh... almost all manufacturers realize the need for burn in and if you take a quick look at your manuals for any non-consumer mid-fi gear, you will see this mentioned (sorry for the repeat of info). I cannot COUNT the times I have heard this demonstrated. As said, some components are far worse than others, and the changes can be subtle. But if I judged my Rega Planet in the first 72 hours, I would have taken it back for a full refund. It was closed in, lacking detail, missing refinement, sounding congested, and basically making me REGRET my purchase, that is, unless I hadnt already heard a unit fully warmed up and broken in. The same with holds true TUBES. The first 100 hours or so of tube use is spent burning them in. You will notice a sense of ease and more extension creep in...as well as (usually) a smoothing of the highs. As for speakers, almost EVERY reviewer refuses to even begin a proper review without breaking in the speakers in some shape or form. Some do it with discs, some with music, some have them running while away from home, some use sources DEDICATED to this. Some face the speakers toward each other out of phase etc. Regardless, almost ALL reviewers recognize this process and the manufacturers EXPECT it for a fair review. kh ps- As a side note here, The Rega Planet wins the award for the longest time to sound its best in my system... the beast did not sound its best till near a month... I was annoying to say the least. Most gear starts to really sound fully fleshed out after 100 hours or so... Almost ALL get better with use...some very little, some more. Hardly any, however, completely CHANGE character totally. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 02-01-2002 at 08:22 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 BenG, I would consider the Monarchy DIP, I had one and while it's no longer here that doesn't mean it didn't do it's job. For your situation it is a quick and relatively cheap fix for harshness, which I attribute to digital gunk. I would be disinclined to experiment with cables, etc. until you are in the 'fine-tuning' stage. I think you describe more of a 'coarse-tuning' effort in your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 BenG, good to see you are hanging in there. Listen, I would hold off a bit on the silver wire. It is expensive and some find it far too bright sounding in certain systems. Just hold on for a second before changing too many variables. Let your current gear get fully settled in. You need some time to adjust and fool with it a bit before you rush out and start the buying process all over again. My advice is to hold up right now on all new purchases. After the equipment has burned in and you have become more familiar with the sound, you can begin the process of what needs to be changed. Dont jump to conclusions and throw too many more new variables in. Granted, I would probably have made a few different choices, and some of the components might be better suited elsewhere..but still, I think you should hold off. Dont even begin the wire hell without everything else burned in with a notion of what the system is doing. kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwillwalk Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 2 pages ...do I hear 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 I notice the warm-up time the most with the Paramour driver tubes, since they need about a 1/2 hour to reduce their noise, and when I was running a SS amp, since it needed about 1 hour to sound good (I would turn it on and then go finish something before sitting down to listen), but then every little tweak with that SS amp was important (I was trying to get the sound "right", since the 2A3 Paramours, tweaks have dropped in importance ... ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 Well, I wouldnt really call these tweaks. It's just good information to keep on hand, especially if you are going to be doing equipment reviews for online zines and publications. It is really important if you are actually going to be doing critical listening. As for SS gear, leaving it on ALL the time takes care of many factors. Warm up, of course. And I have actually found the equipment to last longer when not put through any on and off cycles. Some gear just leaves the end user out of the loop and does not even include an off or on switch as the gear stays powered up while plugged in. Preamps, CD players, processors, and even some turntables are known to have no off and on (the Linn LP-12 Vahalla supply stays powered up at all times. The motor retains the ability to turn off). I NEVER turn my digital gear off now. There really is no reason to... It is nice to have the ability to turn off the display, which the Rega does provide. Still, burn-in and warmup time should be pretty important to you given your reviewer status as of late. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 02-01-2002 at 01:02 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitterhops Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 As someone who "got educated" about Klipsch from my Dubuque, Ia dealer back in '79, I can tell you that the ONE thing he stressed when I bought the Heresy's, was that they had to go in the corner. He said they needed to use the room as an "extension" of their cabinet. Of coarse, did I listen? Noooooo. I didn't have any corners available either at the time. They still sounded good though. All my friends had Bozo 901's and Pioneer speakers, and they liked the Heresy's better than theirs. That surprised me, egos being wht there were(are). But then I put them in the corners of the living room of my first apartment. I had some friends helping me move and a little party after. Put Hendix's Electric Ladyland on and Oh My Freaking God what a difference! I still remember(and believe me, it is amazing I remember much from those days, especially that night!) the difference the placement made on the sound of those speakers. We couldn't even make it through the whole alblum that night. It was just a little too intense on side 3. Had to play some Brian Eno just to get everybody off of the floor and stop the moaning. So as soon as possible, get them speakers to a corner! This message has been edited by Bitterhops on 02-01-2002 at 04:16 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 This post brings back some beautiful visions... Hendrix and horns and tubes with vinyl. Anyone that says CD = vinyl has never put on classic beauty like Hendrix "Axis Bold As Love" or "Electric Ladyland" Listening to "Castles Made of Sand" or "Bold as Love" on a CD is akin to skidding down a sidewalk with exposed knees. Vinyl and tubes are amazing. A match made in heaven when partnered with big, bold, horns. What are you guys doing???? kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetmann Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 I have quite a collection of LPs going back to the early 70s. My problem is, some of those things have been played a 1000 times. I took care of my albums, but I'm not convinced they sound better than a well mastered CD. Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 Yes. CD does not come close to the life-like feeling of vinyl, especially for old material. Not even close. But who feels like convincing those who think otherwise? There is an extension, air, and life to vinyl that just does not come through on CD. Despite what other say, CD just does not actually have the resolution to equal good analog. IT does come a lot closer, especailly when done right. Others have mentioned this. But for older material, there is literally NO comparison. Even KIDS that come over here to be tutored HEAR the difference!!! Problem is, to set up a good vinyl rig takes more than plucking down $300 at Audio Advisor and plugging the package in after the plastic is removed. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Posted February 1, 2002 Author Share Posted February 1, 2002 Okay, Another night. I spent all day "burning in" the system. It has been changing, slightly. Sometimes during that listening process I say to myself, its really not, Im just "accepting it" - or - should I say geeting used to it. I feel a loss of detail, clarity, I once had. Then I really pick up on some dynamics as if its the real "live" sound. I am ready to drop(order) $80.00 on a digital coaxial cable. I really think this should give me more "weight" than the "thin" sound the optical toslink. What do you guys recommend ? Oh, I went ahead and bought tickets for a Luis Miguel concert. He is like the Frank Sinatra of Mexico. I really enjoy his "music". My wife enjoys watching him...hehehe. He utilizes all the right instruments, romance with trunpets, violins, sax, you name it. Orchestra style. (02/07/02 concert time - our seats right about dead center and the first level above the floor seats) This should bring a good conclusion on the sound I need to sort of compare my Heresy's to... RIGHT??? Thanks again, -benny ------------------ Monarchy Audio SM-70 Onkyo DV-S535 Monarchy Audio Model 33 KLIPSCH HERESY II (soon) AudioQuest Slate/Diamondback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Posted February 1, 2002 Author Share Posted February 1, 2002 colin, one of the rig legs for a bass tube, yu will get really killer deep bass, just posistion your house at the sweet spot at the end of the bass leg! I would have to buy a house-boat ! and, then maybe the Navy would send out scouts to see what is throwing off their subsonic radar????? thks -benny ------------------ Monarchy Audio SM-70 Onkyo DV-S535 Monarchy Audio Model 33 KLIPSCH HERESY II (soon) AudioQuest Slate/Diamondback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 christ....youre using toslink???? I didnt even catch that. man... Save yourself some headache and take my word for it and buy the below - it sounds excellent: The Bitstream Digital Link by DIYCable http://www.diycable.com/interconnects.htm#bit Next, you might consider the transport as well. Trying bringing home something else from your local hifi AudioBoon palace. Get a loaner of value. Luis Miguel???? LORD. His backing band sounds like something off a K-tel release! Holy sap-a-rama! Ole Sinatra is rolling in is grave with that comparison! Benny, what's goin' on down there in Texas??? kh Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 02-01-2002 at 08:35 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG Posted February 1, 2002 Author Share Posted February 1, 2002 Luis Miguel???? LORD. His backing band sounds like something off a K-tel release! Holy sap-a-rama! Ole Sinatra is rolling in is grave with that comparison! Benny, what's goin' on down there in Texas??? Whats up with that?? I was comparing the styles, not recording, and/or band. " he melts the ladies with his voice and lyrics" that was the comparison I was intending to deliver. But, NEVER having the pleasure of listening to Sinatra's stuff, I couldnt compare. Nonetheless, I enjoy the music. Another issue, I jumped the gun and ordered : www.boldercables.com NOW you tell me! what are your thoughts of these cables? ------------------ Monarchy Audio SM-70 Onkyo DV-S535 Monarchy Audio Model 33 KLIPSCH HERESY II (soon) AudioQuest Slate/Diamondback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 Would that be a K-tel release on vinyl or on CD? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 You've heard the difference too??? So happy someone has! K-tel vinyl. Need I say more? K-tel digital WISHES... Envy. It's all pure envy. You know the two divisions arent linked, right? Punches are pulled. Hey, Benny...now what in the name of sweet mother's Teat milk are you goin' and buying on your own again!!! You saw what happened list time! OK. Enough banter. Bolder is using the basic John Risch design as well... so it's very near the same cable. It's just that Kevin does it better! Heh, to be honest, there are a few differences. But you should be fine. ...just dont let it happen again. kh ps - I'm still having trouble with the Luis Miguel thing...I'm getting over it..slowly. Thank St Nick for this Bass Ale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyu Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 Hey Guys ....in 1958 the H-1 was re-named the Heresy. They only thing it wanted to do was be a center ch. for the Khorns setup as a 3-way audio system in a wide room. PWK told me that ...all speakers are corner speakers, the corner can add 6-10 db of output... 50Hz - 20kHz You may want that sub... But your right, Dream boat Annie on a clean LP did sound good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by BenG: I feel a loss of detail, clarity, I once had. This is really strange. Most people feels exactly the opposite when first exposed to the Heresy's. In fact, they feel so MUCH detail and clarity that they feel the speakers as "harsh"! I think something is going on on your system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLUngurait Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 This weekend I was listening to an associate's iPod (pretty cool little device!)...he happened to be playing Luis Miguel (not my typical cup of tea)...I thought his back-up band (horn section in particular) sounded pretty darn good...then I found out he was being backed up by The Tower of Power...never knew they recorded for K-tel... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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