Mystery Guest Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 You can trust him. He knows what he is talking about. ------------------ The token female for the Klipsch Fan Club Tour 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPonder Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Yeah if I sit up it's a lot tighter. I'm thinking of moving the couch, if I rotate everything 90 degrees the couch will sit in frint of the doublewide opening. See there are two rooms both equal size. Haven't decided yet, I'm gonna check out your house right now. Thanks ------------------ Onkyo TX8511 ADCOM GCD-700 KLIPSCH CF3,s KLIPSCH CF4's KSW-300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Palm Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 EQS? Throw them away! Set every thing flat and let the big dogs eat. The performance was EQed in recording. It is how the artist intends it to sound. At a flat response it is how the artist entends to sound in your room. If you dont like it,change the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 Just because the ARTIST liked it that way doesn't mean I like it that way. Jeez. That's like saying you should never add salt or pepper to your food when you're in a restaurant, 'cause that's the way the chef intended for it to taste. If I like a LOT more bass than the guy who mastered or produced a CD, then I should crank up the bass. Likewise, if I think the engineer had way to heavy a hand on the gain control for that mike sitting in front of the bass drum, then I might find the recording a lot more likeable if I turn DOWN the bass. The idea here is to HAVE FUN, LISTEN to MUSIC, SMILE and DANCE A LOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted March 14, 2001 Share Posted March 14, 2001 I wanted a pure "flat" sound. So I used a spectrum analyzer to see how "flat" was flat and I found that even with the receivers tone controls set to 0, for whatever reason, the sound was very colored. Without graphing your response with a test CD and a sound meter, or using a spectrum analyzer, how do you know if what you think is flat actually is flat? Most manufacturers dont tell you what the tone controls are actually doing (as in what frequency theyre centered on, and width and shape of the adjustment). But even if you knew, would you be able to use those two tone controls to discolor the sound to flat? An equalizer allowed me to adjust the frequencies to a pretty flat response. But you know what? It really SUX!!! Almost no bass whatsoever. So, leaving most of the tones set for a flat response (settings that I would have never have guessed), I salted the sound to my liking, which is what its all about any way. I just learned that leaving the Bass and Treble knobs at 0 is not necessarily flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 I agree with you that listening to really flat music reeks. As far as the tone controls go, if you have a "Tone Defeat" button on you receiver/preamp I'd have it engaged. Using the analyzer with all the eq settings flat and the tone controls defeated will give you a flat output from the speakers (well, it's supposed to anyway) but not in the room. Every room either absorbs or reflects certain fequencies and at different amounts. If you had a room with hardwood floors and NO furniture you would have what is called a very "live" room (if it echoes it's REALLY live). In other words, all (well, most anyway) the sound coming from the speakers is reflected back from the opposing wall bouncing around in the room, then theres resonances at some fequencies (the shattering of a wine glass by an opera singer is a good example) that boost some to some really high levels. Now, if you had a lot of furniture, drapes, curtains etc. in the room then the sound is going to get absorbed in those items creating a "dead" sounding room. The eq is meant to cut the live fequencies and boost the dead ones. Just my non-formal-educated thought. ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany Carver Receiver MXR-150 Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Carver TL-3100 CD Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ dbx 3bx Series Two H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer (antique but works great) Monster Interlink 300 mk II Original 12ga. Monster Cable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant One Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 But of course, if your system doesn't need one then it is better removing the whole eq unit from your hifi as more equipment in your signal chain will probably add noise and distortion to da signal. I agree, eq or not, just sit back and enjoy the music to your taste. "So much nonsense is written about 'manipulation' of the music .... the composer manipulates from picking up the pen .... the Concert hall manipulates because each seat is different .... And my manipulation as a conductor is that I try to bring out the sound that I want. That is my handwriting." -Herbert von Karajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobG2 Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 If you EQ your system for "flat" response, you will have little bass and screeching highs. This is due to the direct/reflected near field/far field, power response deal. Flat as measured by the single position microphone measurement approach is not FLAT at all. Don't do it. On the other hand, there is something to be gained by correcting for room induced error. This is not the same as tailoring the sound to your taste - which is also fine since this is all for enjoyment. The tonal balance of the original recording is altered by your lisenting room. Usually, the room is the worst component in your system. Correcting for room induced amplitude error is not simple and if simple (graphic eq) tools are all that is available, it is best to go very gentle on the controls. Less is More (Ommmmm). With digital signal proceessing based eq, and sophisticated measurement, you can do a lot more and avoid the penalty which comes with analog eq. Digital eq is still expensive, but coming down in cost. 11th Commandment of EQ - Avoid the "smiley face" pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klewless Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 BobG2, That 11th commandment is a real gem! ------------------ John P St Paul, MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 I am using an Alesis M-EQ 230, 1/3 octave equalizer in my system- Mcintosh solid state & 4 Cornwalls. The Alesis is actually pro gear that has rca & 1/4" jacks. I have never been a member of the audiophile purist school of thought, no tone controls period. Audiophile purist espouse the use of different brands & types of speaker wire & interconnects to tailor the sound. Most high end gear, preamps have no tone controls. I have subjectively always preferred the use of tone controls and an equalizer. Corrections can be made for poor room acoustics. Bad recordings can be made tolerable with judicious use of an equalizer. The Alesis has multiple led lights on the front panel for each channel. Eq in, signal present, clip indicator, power. It has variable gain +or-12 db for each channel & a bypass switch for each channel. It all boils down to personal choice and what you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonestarBlues Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 I am using an Alesis M-EQ 230, 1/3 octave equalizer in my system- Mcintosh solid state & 4 Cornwalls. The Alesis is actually pro gear that has rca & 1/4" jacks. I have never been a member of the audiophile purist school of thought, no tone controls period. Audiophile purist espouse the use of different brands & types of speaker wire & interconnects to tailor the sound. Most high end gear, preamps have no tone controls. I have subjectively always preferred the use of tone controls and an equalizer. Corrections can be made for poor room acoustics. Bad recordings can be made tolerable with judicious use of an equalizer. The Alesis has multiple led lights on the front panel for each channel. Eq in, signal present, clip indicator, power. It has variable gain +or-12 db for each channel & a bypass switch for each channel. It all boils down to personal choice and what you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 did someone need a tapestry??? i've got a real big one of the dogs playing poker in storage. make me an offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Palm Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 Mayby I should not be so biased, but when I said "flat" I was refering to "0". I chose KLIPSCH for their accuracy. This is how it sounds and I dont want to distort what an artist created. Using EQ is like drawing a moustache on The Mona Lisa with a magic marker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesteel Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 I agree, and that was my intention, to hear exactly what the artist intended. But ... that's not possible without being in the studio when they created it. An alternative is to have a standard: Little to no coloration or a relatively "flat" tone, lets say +/- 3dB over the whole response range. The deal is, every component: from the power supply; to the playback source; the amplification; the speakers; and especially the room will color the music. Its a sure bet that without some type of compensation, any system with the tone controls set to the neutral "0" position is not flat. Mona may not have a full moustache, but at the very least, shes going to have a 5 o'clock shadow. Without measuring the frequency response at several levels with a sound meter and a tone generator, or a spectrum analyzer, it would take a very special ear to tell if a sound system isn't coloring what the artist intended. Whatever you use to get a get an objective look, once you see your system in the mirror of a graph, think of an equalizer as an electric razor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted April 2, 2001 Share Posted April 2, 2001 Lone Palm said "...Using EQ is like drawing a moustache on The Mona Lisa with a magic marker..." I think of it more as changing the color of the lighting in which the painting is displayed. If I hang the Mona Lisa under a direct, clear incandescent bulb I might see all the little surface defects in the painting, the cracks in the old oils, and the subtle color variations in the fabric of her robes might be washed out and difficult to detect. If I hang it under florescent lights, the color balance might shift to the blue/green side, her normally rosy pallor might look a little sickly, but the softer lighting would minimise the impact of the surface defects - they're still there, and you can see them if you look, but they're no longer the first thing you notice. Replacing the standard florescent with a pink-tinted warm light version would be best - surface defects not so blatent, color balance closer to what the artist intended, most accessible presentation conveying the emotion and artistry of the painting. THAT'S what proper EQ can do for a system. Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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