Deang

Where do you live Jeff? What kills me with all the big Heritage is nobody keeps their boxes, and shipping is freaking expensive.

Excellent job nailing it down. Yeah, that sums it up pretty good. I think the RF-7 definitely has that 'you are there' quality, whether one finds this 'more' or 'less' involving is a just matter of preference. For me, it will just be a matter of what I feel like hearing at the time. As far as tubes and 'punch' -- that's the first thing that blew me away about tubes. I think the bass is much more realistic sounding than any solid state I've heard. The bass just seems to grab the whole room. With solid state, it seems like the note is gone before you have a chance to actually enjoy it.

Max, Actually, neither speaker 'wears' on me. I can listen to the RF7's at rip snorting volumes indefinitely. Ever heard the RF-7's with tubes? Incidently, have you asked yourself why folks are willing to pay twice as much as you had decided to take for them? Jeff, You still have those things?

Yeah, definitely. The RF-7's and Heresies have almost as much in common, as they don't have in common. I do think the RF-7's need to be placed off to the side when discussing comparisons between Reference and Heritage. I mean, the driver/horn in the 7 is very different from the one used in the RB-5, RF-3, or RF-5. Kelly recently compared his Cornwalls to the RF-5, and really preferred the Cornwalls -- but the RF-5 is not the RF-7. Besides leo and myself, I don't think anyone here has driven the RF-7's with push-pull and/or SET. Leo's getting ready to build his Moondogs, and his future report will be very interesting indeed. At any rate, I think it much fairer to compare the Heresy to the RB-5, RF-3, or RF-5, as this is where it really falls. Leo's (Leok) earlier posts comparing his Fortes to his RF-7's always left me feeling a bit confused. He claimed the Fortes were smoother on top, and the RF-7's were somewhat hotter, making them sound more 'live'. I always thought the complete opposite would be true. This comes from my general experience with three-ways compared to two-ways, along with my exposure to LaScalas and K-horns in the past. What I found is that Leo is right. The RF-7's ARE hotter than the Heresies. I'm sure this has mostly to do with the titanium driver in the RF-7. The RF-7's project a sense of immediacy, and though they may not have the hair trigger dynamics of the LaScala -- they do very well in their own right. I've loved the sound of the metal drivers ever since they first started appearing in speakers, but I know some people just hate the way they sound. I think they add a 'realness' to the sound. I am not a big fan of plastic or silk domes. Silk and fabric drivers sound too soft and compressed, and plastic sounds...well...plastic. The only plastic dome drivers I have ever liked are those from the old ADS 'L' series. I still think the somewhat inverted 2" paper cone/dome in the Original Advent sounded better than 99% of all the speakers using the plastic domes through the 80's and 90's -- which was why I ended up with Magnepans. I told Kelly once that it's all about the midrange. If the midrange sounds right, you can tolerate just about anything else that is 'wrong' in a speaker. The quality of 'openness' and the lack of constriction that comes with it, the snap and crispness of the snare drum, and the sound of veil-less voices hanging in the air. It's really odd -- but more times than not, it just seems the simple designs pull this off better than the really complicated pricey stuff. The midrange in the Heresy sounds 'right' to me, but so does the midrange in the Reference models I've heard. Its all ear candy to me, and I think we should just say that their is a "Klipsch sound" for everyone.

Horns can sound annoying if you're driving them with cheap solid state. They kind of have that nice chainsaw quality to the sound, or maybe it's the fingers down the chalkboard thing.

I just think horns tell the brutal truth about what is going on downstream. People typically hear Klipsch in showrooms hooked up to low budget mass market receivers, and dirt cheap DVD players. Yeah, they probably do sound like crap. Seems this guy once said, "If you don't like what's coming out, you wouldn't like what's going in".

Andy, (or HD, isn't 'Andy' your 'real' name?) I can certainly see where the Heresies would be a good canditate for lower powered solid state. They certainly don't sound much like Scalas to me -- at least, not with the Scott on them. I think any solid state amp that doesn't double up the transistors would surely sound very good on them. If a person really wanted to take the solid state path with the Heresies, crank things up a notch over something like the HK, and not want to break the bank account doing it -- I think splitting the crossover, adding dual binding posts, and biamping with a pair of Byston 2B-LP's -- would be the bomb. No, I'm not going to do this. I really am broke now:) Craig, Seriously, how far can I go on the dial before the Scott pinches off? I'll probably find out Monday anyways -- but if you told me, my wife would appreciate it:)

This system is very simplistic. Heresies @ $500 Scott 299A @ $500 Marantz DV-7010 @ $500 That's how I listened to it last night for about 5 hours. The Heresies didn't actually hit my doorstep until 7:30pm last night (the UPS dude looked wiped). By the time I got them cleaned up (3 rub downs with Gibson guitar polish) and hooked them up -- it was too late in the evening to run the SVS with them. I'm using the derived center channel of the Scott to feed the low level output to my HSU electronic crossover, which is sending 50Hz and below to the Samson 1000 pro amp, feeding the SVS. Monday, I'll open up the system. Actually, even without the sub -- there is plenty of bass for me. They're just sitting on the floor with the risers underneath. The tilt of the risers is perfect for the couch -- which is only 6 or 7 feet back from the system. So Craig, where on that dial can I go with the Heresies? Didn't you say '8' or '9'

...what are you doing:) Been listening the best $1500 stereo I've ever heard. The Heresies sound great, and for whatever reason -- don't sound anything like I remember. I'm even wondering if I've ever really heard these. I'm thinking maybe I heard some KG's instead, and thought they were Heresies. I thought these things would be painfully bright, but that is not what I've found. For now, I'll only say they sound very good, but will also say that many of you are unduly harsh regarding the Reference lineup. I really don't see the signatures between Heritage and Reference being all that substantially different. It's almost like the bumps and dips in the frequency response are just in different places, but other than that -- the Heresies and RF-7's have the same snappy midrange, and crisp, smooth highs. The RF-7's have it all over the little Heresies in dynamics -- but those Heresies really boogie. I can see the possibility of something bigger down the road -- but the RF-7's stay:)

You add them.

Gee, I guess it would have helped if I had remembered to paste the link. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/49147.html

Those curves are not for public consumption. Klipsch keeps them pretty close to the vest. You could do what I did. Plot your own using a SPL meter and CD with test tones on it. Personally, I think it's a little more accurate, because it's based on your room, at your listening position. Use the following link, which has instructions and the correction chart for the Radio Shack SPL meter. http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/49147.html I put my numbers into an excel speadsheet, and then used the chart wizard to make a my curve. As far as the sub goes: If you are using a high pass filter --I would raise it a tad and put it at 60Hz. This relieves the woofers of having to do most of the lower bass -- which will clean up the midrange considerably. If you are just using the low pass -- just set it to 40 and adjust for any irregularities by experimenting with sub placement. Sometimes, even a few inches away for the walls will smooth things out. "A man is destined to accomplish great things -- but only if he has the courage to conquer himself." -- Bruce Lee Another one of my favorites is: "Empty heads have long tongues."

Mine came with wax seals stamped with a signet ring. The impregnated image in the wax is a picture of Bob Gassel.

Pretty comical Jim. From your posts in this thread I can't tell if they're still for sale, or if you've already sold them to someone on the forum -- and you're just trying to figure out shipping details. BTW. You don't need another set of K-horns. You need a preamp!!

Well, the motor does work, and the speed can be adjusted by changing the distance of the magnet and the "wheel". I haven't really had any time to play with this thing yet. I want to change the wiring and play with the crossover on the Heresies a bit before I tackle the turntable, and I may even have to restore another set of DQ's or two. I've had several offers from people who want me to rebuild their DQ's based on pics with the ad I ran when I sold mine. I may have to do these things just so I can finance my ludicrous experiments.

It's just a bad idea all the way around.

Tigerwood, Whether or not something is "enough" will have alot to do with listening habits, musical tastes, room size, and how far away you sit from the speakers. I do all of my listening "near field". I've been doing this for about 3 years now. I sit about 8 feet back, and with the Scott wired to the 4 ohm speaker terminals on the back of the amp -- the Scott was only putting out about 10 watts. With the RF-7's, I had no problem at all reaching 100db at the listening position -- which I believe to be damn loud. I can't possibly imagine the Scott "not being enough" with a set of K-horns. Wired to the 8 ohm taps -- it should easily drive the K-horns to deafening levels -- unless of course, you live in a barn. Alan Maybe "over-rated" isn't the best word. It's just when I compare the level of musicality out of a $500 Scott integrated, to what comes out of my $1800 SET monoblocks and $850 preamp -- I just don't feel the "seperates" sound $2150 better than the integrated. Actually, the SET amps were originally $2750 in kit form, and the preamp currently goes for $1200. I think Welborne charged $450 to put the amps together, and the KR300BXLS replacement tubes I just bought were $450. So, we are really comparing an integrated that can be had and fixed for around $600 -- to a seperates system that if bought new -- would total $4850. There is a huge difference between $600 and $4850! I can't imagine many but a loon like myself taking the one over the other. It's the law of diminishing returns, and like I said before -- if the SET amps had to go -- I could easily live with the Scott forever.

No forum is perfect, and they all have their problems. At least this one isn't primarily composed of anal inmates. There is a good balance here, and generally -- most opinions are backed by some form of reason based on facts, instead of raw emotion. I do wish we had some kind of newbie FAQ's link on the 2 channel forum. It would contain a list of the 10 or 15 most commonly asked questions, as well as some general advice regarding vintage and modern tube amp purchases. We could also include links to other sites where they could get a general education on tube gear and tube types. I personally don't understand the posts dealing with multichannel receivers, as this is the TWOCHANNELFORUM.

I don't know...$250 for 5 speakers sounds like a pretty good deal to me -- unless they're made out of cardboard.

I pretty much like them just the way they are. How those Moondogs coming Leo?

<snore>ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz</snore> Sorry, but this old metalhead can't relate.

Finding a B3 probably won't be much of a problem -- the Leslies are something else altogether. Didn't those Leslies spin around and around -- or was that me spinning at that last ELP concert.

Repitition is the best teacher. Got my new KR300BXLS'. A very different tube in structure. No ringing at all. I'm very pleased. Sonically, it seems to be a little warmer, but also seems to be a bit less dynamic. BTW -- what are your thoughts on the Eicos?

Separates are nice, but maybe somewhat overrated. The Scott Craig sent me actually sounds better in ways than the AE-3 DJH preamp and AE-25 DJH amp I was running. Don't get caught up in this -- you'll just end up spending money you don't need to spend. IMO.

Who cares? Really. I guess I'm just a lousy American Consumer who would rather pay $2200 for my RF-7's instead of $3200.