Travis In Austin

I didn't see the part where it said most speaker designs were made by 1930 and technology only made them cheaper. I did see this: "A system was even mounted at the 1939 New York World’s Fair, this one designed by Rudy Bozak, who worked for Cinaudagraph." The Museum had one of the drivers from this system plus literature about the system and driver. I also saw this last sentence: "Since then [1955] there have been many improvements to both sound quality and strength, which is why loudspeakers are still in use today." Really?

Have not read the article yet, but if you look at Horn and driver or a pape cone speaker in an enclosurer, then yeah they are all the same. If you look at sensitivity, frequency response and distortion, nothing is the same. Interesting to see how the article glosses over patents.

Somebody say "Constitution"?

Here is a link to the official Klipsch CES 2018 page. I am told that the page will be updated daily with photos and news of That day's events. I'm not sure if that will be a separate page or if the blog will appear on the same page, maybe @Chad knows. If it is a seperate link I will add it in here. http://www.klipsch.com/ces-2018

+1.

You are referencing the famous Stereo Review test from 30 years ago conducted by an audio skeptic, David Clark. Your close on the equipment, Pioneer receiver, Marl Levinson ML-11, about 2,000, but it was $12,000 Futterman Monoblocks! People could tell differences, and they could have preferences. People often miss out on what Clark's point was in all of this: your money is better spent on speakers and source (higher level turntable and cartridge). Everything else in the chain, phono, preamp, cartridge, tonearm was top of the line. Most people can't even remember the speakers used, only that a Pioneer receiver beat a 12,000 pair of Monoblocks. There is a marked difference in DBT an audio component (like an amp) and a pair of speakers. There is scientific validity, if done right, on DBT of speakers, across a number of peer reviewed journals. I agree that it is nigh on impossible to come up with a valid way of ABing a component like an amp. I think Clark's method was flawed. Two amps were compared at a time, but listeners were told 3. The 3rd they were asked to name when in fact is was either A or Buddhist they had already heard. But you can conduct speaker test where people can listen and select their preference, which is capable of being duplicated over and over. You can compare groups of people, like audio reviewers with high school students. People in the US with people in Japan. One of 100 examples http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2012/11/behind-harmans-testing-lab.html From there you can try and determine what common objective data is shared by the "preferred" speakers. Harmon Int'l has concluded it is flat frequency response. They claim they have a correlation of .86 as to what people will predictably prefer. Above video two online audio guys picked the cheapest of 4 speakers as sounding best (which were Harman), and one of them ranked a set of Polk speakers worst (which he owned). It may very well in fact be the case that differences in capacitors in a network are of the "minute" sort of difference that are not capable of being accurately A/B tested. I don't know. You can most certainly tell the difference between speakers in DBT, can express a preference, and it some cases, that will even save you money. If it sounds good to the buyer, they are happy, and perfectly ok with paying more for caps of their choice, who cares? Of course that goes both ways. If it isn't worth the price, or if they can't tell the difference, or even prefer Jensen, or PIO, or Sprague, etc., who cares? If it were me, I would suggest that people are just unsure, build one speaker with El Cheepo brand, and one set of with expensive Brand de jour and let em decide for themselves. If they love brand de Jour they can just order another set. If they don't like the de Jour they can sell them in Garage Sale and not be out the full amount.

Matt, How can we buy a High Rez version?

I think that sums up the entire exercise. Well said.

You let the listener determine what they want to sample, you have to eliminate music preference. You give me the left/right AB control and determine how they want to listen and flip back and forth. You also make them do some very limited listening and selections with pink noise. You can deve5lope validity Scales using pink noise thrown in at some point.

The "user" is the consumer, they most certainly do set the demand at a given price. It depends on what you are trying to determine. If you are a manufacturer it is critical to know where a consumer is willing to pay more because a dollar difference in cost can have a $4, 8 or 10 increase in retail price. I think @Deang would agree that while you can spend even more on caps than what Jupiters cost, there is a point of diminishing returns that don't justify the marginal cost. If you are a consumer you do your own listening, or not, to make up your own mind as to what you can, or cannot perceive, if it is an improvement, and if so is cost difference justified. First there has to be a difference, then a preference, and if there is a preference, are they willing to pay for that preference.

You can factor that out in a crossover comparison. Just do it double blind, left vs. right comparison, swap L and R speakers to rule out a "corner preference" after that, double blind them in pairs, A and B. The key to all of this is you tell them upfront that they may be listening to same crossover in both speakers, or different ones. You ask if they hear a difference, if so, do they have a preference. Lastly, and this is the most critical thing, how much would you be willing to pay for that difference, if anything.

You have to register, they take your photo and issue you a badge with photo ID. Back in the day they would issue an attendee a guest badge and you could hand them off to others to shuttle more people in. Those days are over.

The Venetian is an official CES venue, it is the designated high end area. Anyone with a CES pass can get in any of the exhibitor suites at the Venetian. The private, invite only, hospitality suites are not listed as part of CES official locations

Anybody can go if you plan enough ahead and pay the registration fee and you just check the box that says installer or consultant on the registration form. It is much more difficult and expensive to try and register at the show. Once you are registered they send you a renewal every year. It's $300 by the way, there is a substantial savings if you are a CTA member.

Toolshed, VPI turntables and phono amps, Carey, etc., etc.

Again, they go from 90 Hz to 6K. If that range satisfies your needs than you are golden. If you also subscribe to the notion of "single point" stereo you will even be happier. I enjoyed listening to them, it was a unique and memorable experience. Just like I enjoy listening to old 78s on hand crank phonographs with steel needles. It is nostalgic and shows how far we have come. Hi Fidelity or Wi-Fi is a term used by Home listeners. It is indeed a relative term, that is why PWK continually upgraded and updated all of his products including the Khorn. When you said it was the first hi fi speaker I thought you were inferring that it was used in home and purchased for that purpose when made. I don't think people got the idea to stick them in their homes until maybe the 60s or 70s, when they were being torn out of theaters. ADD, if you have a great piece of music that is between about 100 Hz and 5K, and you don't care about stereo image, they sound incredible. Travis

You would have lots of company.

Toolshed SET amps to power Klipsch at CES

Fire Breathing Monsters at CES. Last month, Klipsch unveiled four new on-wall models as part of its Reference Premier Designer series, now the company has officially announced the availability of two new Reference speakers one company representative nicknamed “fire-breathing monsters.” The all new RF-7 III floorstander and RC-64 III center channel are due to be on display during CES 2018 (Booth 13529, Central Hall).

Ask this guy, he would know.

I think I know where you can get one at a good price.

They are professional theater speakers, not hi-fi. The sensitivity depended if it was the 6016-A (2 555 drivers) or the 6116A (4 555 drivers). I'm not sure what they put out in SPL, but they are unlistenable to someone used to modern equipment (i.e., a Khorn). A 16A with WE 555s goes down to only about 90 hz and up to about 6 KHz. That is why Khorn is so remarkable. He was able to make a more compact model with a true hi-fi frequency response. The Klipsch Museum has WE 555s and other WE drivers on display, including a prototype Khorn with WE drivers.

Based on what. His wife is on record saying exactly the opposite. The Engineer who worked on it with him and co-authored the AES paper I don't believe agrees either. Which two? PWK8Cardsml.pdf

Uhhh, no he didn't work Bell or Western Electric. But he collected their horns and drivers. He worked for GE after he graduated from NMSU. It was while he was at GE that he when to Chile to work on electric locomotives. Someone needs to write a book about all of this.

You are all over the map in this thread. You started out saying she told you they don't warranty tubes at all. That wasn't accurate. They warranty tubes for 90 days from date of purchase. Your "tube amps" are still under warranty, not the tubes. You need to find another Mac dealer, it wouldn't have been any issue at all at most Mac dealers. You keep asking questions after the fact. Yes they should have given the tubes back, but did you ask for them?