nola

I thank SWL (whomever and where ever you are) for letting me know about this topic. I am no phillipbarret nor colter; I am a rank amateur here. However, I offer the following based solely on my hearing, my main room, and my "rig". Main room, roughly 15-17' x 40' x 14' (sloping ceiling). Combo of brick and wood walls, old leakiy french doors, bookcases and "stuff" galore. Main room includes kitchen, dining room, den, etc. Must be fairly weird sonically. Someone from another av forum had suggested some large pro audio type subs to deal with the roughly 9000 cu ft room and "match"my Khorn fronts, LaScala rears, and Academy center (my pre and peri-Katrina rig). In late '07 the 2 dual 18" driver subs arrived. Each cab was 2 x 2 x 4 feet in size. Across the wall were: KH (small space), sub, audio rack, 26" TV, sub, (a second small space gap), and KH. I never even considerd subs before Katrina - "I have KHs, what more bass could you ask for". Boy was I wrong. Once I was done fooling around with all of the surround settings, I noted large accoustic differences between running 1 or both subs. I had thought about trying the full range output 2 Ch idea, but never did it. Perhaps I should have tried it. Eventually I moved the left sub towards the middle of the room, only a bit behind the couch, along the left wall. The small furnace closet was behind it. Thus it sat in a small corner. Sound was a bit different, but still pleasing. I think I always have used an 80 Hz LFE preamp/processor bypass for the subs. My pre/pro has 2 sub out mono RCA jacks. I use 1 for each sub. My sub amps also have settings to dial in the cutoff point as desired. I bought 2 single 18" driver Behringer 1800X subs last fall. They are old, but when stacked and placed next to the left sub, they are actually louder. Due to continuous post Katrina (de)struction, I have been unable to use them at the back of the room to even out the bass. The bass, perhaps due to cancellation, is very weak in the rear or kitchen area. I also guessed that I might end up with only 1 by the kitchen (sort of like the way Dr. Hsu recommends using his smaller sub at the back of large rooms) and then could use 1 in the bedroom, and thus have unequal sort of stereo subs (RSW-15 is in the bedroom now). Why all of the subs? (I cannot assess the degree of any noise cancellation in my main room. Every month I have to rearrange the place, thus changing where "stuff" is too.) Despite what many write, I CAN tell where the subs are. Perhaps this is due to them handling frequencies above some certain low Hz point, or maybe some ?harmonics or rattling from the sub cabinets? Could also be from some higher frequncy rattling of adjacent brick a brack, chatchkies, etc. Perhaps at an open air concert or in a venue above a certain size, given large numbers of bass drivers in a couple or more clusters, the aural experience or wavefronts act differently than in smaller spaces like rooms at home. Just my 2 cents I would also like to learn more about differences as to when the tweeter, squaker, and woofer/horn sounds reach a desired spot, eg-the couch. This stuff was mentioned in a prior post, but I did not understand it. I thought sound travelled through air at the same speed - regardless of frequency. Are these timings different becase of the distance the air pressure "wave" has to travel from the diaphragm location? If so, the mid and tweeter are only a foot or so (?1-2ms) different; no idea how to calcluate that in the folden horn woofer.

i went down the path of "sub-dum" in '07 and '08. it will drive you nuts. i am bored now, sohere is my diatribe: my 2 cents, in brief (see the profile below for this king of bass). you need to decide: 1. how much real estate can this stuff take up? major issue in my bedroom. currently resolved with an rsw-15. plan to add a behr 18 this summer, if i can find space. i do want 2 subs to even out the bass. given that you will likely use the sub up to at least 80 or 100 hz, the sound WILL be directional. real estate is not an issue in my large main room. ***remember-physics is physics. a 3 sq ft sub cannot go very low regarless of spec sheet mis-information. if you want real sub 30 hz tones, your sub will have to be big. 2. do you need a premade solution, can you build a sub-even with some help as needed, etc. the more you can build the less expensive the solution. my commercial subs also have separate amps. this stuff is butt ugly with WAF of -10 (=frying pan aimed at your head). sort of like asking do you want a lascala or a belle. to me the belle is furniture-and costs it, the LS (like my old ones) is a speaker (kinda ugly too), but less costly. if you don't wanna go klipsch new or used, but want premade, i suggest reading the voluminous posts under craigsub's list at avs forums from '07 and '08. for diy, there are tons of other links and forums. 3. how big is your space? you need to figure cubic feet. how harsh is your space. "soft" spaces will absorb more sound. in my 15 x 15 x 14 bedroom a single rws 15 is sweet. in my 17 x 40 x 14 main room, i need my 18" drivers. i think subs are the only speaker component largely driven by room size. 4. speaker matching. not an issue to my ears in my rooms. you have to decide this ahead of time. if you desire to match the tonal qualities of your main spkrs, and cannot afford new, bide your time and buy used. o/w, follow the advice below or diy. beyond klipsch - av123, epik, and eD have good reps at moderate prices. EG, a single 15" with amp at av123 will cost ? $600-800; that is a rock bottom price for this field in a highly rated sub. none of them are household names. they might all be internet only retailers. they are all well rated on craigsub's and other lists. svs, hsu, aci are other good names, but pricier. there are many others worthy of mention too. ports: my behringers are ported. my madisons have a 2' x 8" slot, kinda like a port. the 9 yr old 2 single driver behrs are louder than a single new 2 driver cabinet madison - go figure. but the "tonal" qualities are similar. it's not the port per se, but the tuning, that likely crapped out on you in the past. foam: the partsexpress kit subs have it, but many if not most larger driver diy subs do not use foam. my madisons do not, i think my behrs have a thin rim of foam encircling the driver-not the cabinet, i don't think the rsw is foamed. hope this helps you and others )

wuzzzer kindlly recc the shark to me for audio delay tv/stereo issues. I found it as cheap as $65. Although mine was not just a sub issue, it was a time delay issue, and i found nothing better in my own searches. in the end, i did not buy one. could you provide more detail per your needs? just my 2 cents

I can take Friday off work. Anything going on Th night (late) or Friday during the day. Have to leave for Toronto Sat night/Sun morning though. Thx

Check the fastrac thread on garage sale, ?page 3. I posted a AA schematic there. You can contact Bob Crites too. I think it is the same for Belles, LSs and KHs. BTW if you know of anyone selling some nice Belles, let me know

Project 1: I now have ALK trachorns and new crites caps for the late 70s AA stock network for my Khorns. Neither the new wooden horn nor the new caps have been installed yet, but can' t wait. Although I will likely buy the ALK univ kit next week, while playing with my new wooden horn, do I need to make any changes to the AA network - diff caps, inductors, etc. For the ALK Universals, are changes needed when changing between stock Klipsch squaker or midrange horn unit and the ALK Trachorn ? 400? I have lots of 2 uF and 1.5 uF caps available for the Heresy I and II recaps that could be used (in parallel if needed) for any changes. If I buy beyma or c-125 tweeters later on what mods to aa or alk uni networks would be required? Project 2: Also thinking about the fastrac horns for the LaScalas if current khorn project works well, and talks on the garage forum are going well re these issues, I think.The LSs are also late 70s with stock AA networks. Current plan is to use the LSs for center channel use, as they are too big for the bedroom. Previously, yrs ago, they were my main bedroom spkrs. Based on what I think I know, to keep costs down, I do not intend to change the tweeters nor buy ALK Uni networks for these guys. thanx from new orleans

greg928gts the LS pix here and on your website are awesome!!!. if you were in NO, LA I would truck over my beat up old LSs from around 1975. As is, mine might be covered with a tie dye cloth, with some vents, to improve the -10 WAF.

Wuzzer, Can you elaborate on this: If you want things to sound their best you have to artificially delay the signal going to the rear sub so that each sub's information reaches your ears at the same time. There are digital signal processors you can buy that will let you do this. Specifics on the processor names/types/models and approx prices might be nice ) This or next weekend, I can finally begin reclaiming my 17 x 40 ft main room, high sloped ceiling too. Current plan, subject to change: K horns (trachorns arrived but waiting on Crites caps) up front w acad or LaScala center and Heresy I rears. 2 x 18" cab sub front rt center. Madison Amps brand-metal band cab 2 x 18" cab sub mid, behind couch a bit too, far lt wall 1 x 18" behringer rear center or rear right, in front of kitchen intend to xover at 60-80 Hz from my Outlaw Audio 990 pre pro Sub amps: 1000w rack type from parts express x 2 for the dualies and 500 w plate type for behringer. Phase can be modified on all 3 amps. But agrree, timing will pose an issue. Ok, 5 18" drivers are a bit much, "...but got a great deal on these....(frying pan in the air, aimed at head)." Any suggestions most welcome.

I ordered the 3 recap kits from the Crites family today. Like most folks here, they were SO NICE. Got some gaskets too. I will likely do the various upgrades by June. May do the Crites tweeters for the Khorns, but want want to hear my Khorns with the ALK Trachorns (bought via the garage sale forum) and my Khorn K77 tweeters and new AA network caps first. If I am happy and can hear the diffs between SS amps and my McIntosh MC240s (push pull tube amps), I might stop there. O/W, I might consider the 125 tweeters and the ALK universal xovers. Mr K was also very nice over the phone last week about my upgrades. But I got confused with all the part numbers. His main point, decide on the squaker horn first, was my reason for doing the trachorn now. Mr Cs son also mentioned another xover network, the Crites A/4500. Any opinions vs ALK Universals? I really do not want to spend $1300-1400 on big Als major xovers. Also mentioned titanium? diaphrams for the Heresy IIs. But as these are destined for rear speaker use in the bedroom, I am unlikely to do that upgrade. I was also warned about the difficulty in messing with my round cup H IIs, but might as well recap them now too (23 yrs old). As for my LSs, they are destined for center channel use. I do not intend to cut them up for placing new horns. So I think their only "upgrade" will likely be new caps. If I get the ALK Universals later on, I will try them on the LSs too, if Mr K says they will Xover ok for the Klipsch squaker. I think he said the Trachorn 400 uses a different xover point than the stock PWK squaker mid range product, so that might not be a good idea. (Gotta find some good, cheap Belles, hehehe......)

I may have to take the back off my H IIs, but is it a 68uF or a 6.8uF capacitor? One of the biomed techs thought 68 uF to be pretty high. Also told me to ask about voltage needed. He told me to buy a kit and be done with it, but other DIYers out there with experience at these things might benefit from my Qs. Thx all, and Mr. Crites is super on the diagrams

Time to finally redo my crossover networks. Not sure whether to buy kits from Mr Crites or just buy some from the usual sources mentioned here. I need to know the capacitor sizes to buy, hence the need for the diagram or schematics. I had one for the Heresy II, but it is now AWOL. My only install Q: are they polarized or directional? If so, how do I know which way to place them in? I think the guys who repair our X-ray equipment can also decipher the diagrams. I have a friend in the area who knows about these things, but trying not to use up too many favors. When he let me borrow an SET tube amp this past fall, I realized that my networks were dead. I think I may get the trachorn 400s and one of the ALK Xovers for the Khorns (75-79, AA network). Have already chatted with Mr K. Still confused about whick of his networks to buy or build from kit. Thinking about just recaps on the LaScalas (1975-1979, AA crossover network). I do not foresee being able to fit these in my bedroom as main speakers, unless I move again. Currently disconnected in the main room, where they were used as nice rear speakers. My plan now is to split them up into center channel speakers in the main room (Khorns as mains) and bedroom (WF-34s as mains, as only towers seem to fit, and barely at that). Heresy Is (1975-1979) have never been opened, so I don't know which crossover network they have. I can provide serial numbers or open them up if needed. They and the Khorns are in great cosmetic shape. My plan is too use them as rear speakers in the main room. From what I have seen, these should be very easy to recap with ?2uF x 2 caps per speaker. Mr K said that he does not do Heresy upgrades. I lost Popbumpers phone number and do not know how to contact Dean G. The cap kit is listed on the Crites website. Heresy IIs (1985 or 6), round cup type. When I called Klipsch, I was told that were made in May ?85 or 86, very early in the H II production run. Both have cabinet damage that I think will be easy to repair, mostly a reseal for the glue at the back panel - glue or add small screws too. I bought them in September and plan to use them as rears in the bedroom. If I can figure out a way to make room for one as the RT side front speaker, I would consider them as mains too. I had been told in the past that the quality of the round cup crossovers or caps were not something Klipsch was particularly proud of. I think they were made in China or assembled in Hope from Chinese parts. If you folks suggest an entirely new or different xover, please post. They need 3 caps per speaker and I think the current blue color caps are labelled. I did some searches but I am not entirely certain that I found the correct links for network pics Any assistance appreciated. Thx from New Orleans PS: I am now in a state of De Nile as KlipschIndyFan told me that the Berlin Nefertiti behind me in my avatar picture (Nofretete in German) is a fake from 1912. Oh well.....

Sorry to be a dweeb here. I can fly up to indy on thurs night, but have meetings in toronto beginning sunday, i think. Is there a kinda, sort-of schedule yet? the info on page 1 has had a few rewrites... also, maybe i missed it, any maps, etc? i went to indy last june and had a blast. if it is best to call someone or pm someome for more info, addresses, etc, pls let me know. also, feel free to email or pm me, thx also, where are folks thinking of staying, etc, and do we have like a wiki list of folks thinking of coming? always happy to provide steaks and scotch for couch space too. something about mardi gras beads...... ) thanks all

A few yrs back when trying to figure out which kind of CD and DVD blanks to buy, there were many "computer geek" type postings. Huge differences were pointed out, many lead back to the actual maker of the CD or DVD blank, regardless of whose name was later imprinted on it. Much like wafting thru info on Flash drives, memory chips, etc. Rewritable media uniformly flunks out with significant data loss expected with age (even days) or multiple uses. I do not know what standards are in place, if any, regarding heat tolerance. I assume there is good heat tolerance, but some data loss is likely to be expected esp if the aluminum data pits can be damaged by 100 degree heat - and I don't think car in the sun heat can do this. If you find some "old timers" that use M&K gear, they might be formerly employed from recording studios, etc, and might know. However, I have no idea what standards, if any, most major music CD / DVD makers adhere to. There might be actual, true and verifyable info available via the archivists at the Library of Congress, or similar government labs in Canada, UK, etc. I know the LOC does have info available on preserving records and other recordings. My guess is that data on properly stored CDs or DVDs might have a 25 plus yr shelf life. Lots of assumptions here. Most members of this forum have 20 yr old CDs that are fine. However, does anyone really expect CDs or DVDs to be the storage method of choice for much longer? Anybody still use 1.44 MB floppys or 3.5s, etc, anymore - do you even have readers for these anymore?

TNR-can you PM/email me. My best friend lives in Baltimore, maybe we could chat, as I might consider unloading my big old 18" Behrs.

No doubt all rooms are different. In my bedroom I have my RSW-15 in corner. The driver is aimed away from the bed down the hallway to the kitchen. Yet, it works great. In the main room, I prefer distinct L and R subs, I have 4 now. Give that a try. "They" will tell you that low freq sound is uni/omni directional. B U L L ! ! ! ! Maybe due to harmonics, etc., I can definitely tell where the sub is. Bedroom sub takes everything below 80 Hz; main room - I think below 60 Hz. I wish subsonic sound was directionally recorded, for those of with multiple subs. If you simply take your main spkrs, Khorns in my case, (eg set your rcvr to stereo mode or whatever works for the purpose) and allow full range to your spkrs and subs, you will never willingly go back to "point .1". Mind you not every room is big enough to handle my 6 18" drivers. In fact, my bedroom single 15" rumbles with Led Zep. A buddy has a self made 15" driver, 24" wide, about 3.5 ft tall cylinder sub - totally awesome - but I think he needs paired subs too. Stacking: they will reinforce each other, esp when combined with corner placement. Do a search on AVS forums for craigsub's stuff of over a yr ago. However, there is some physics here. That 300 yr old organ in Europe sounds awesome for reasons, including sheer size of the pipes and the overall cathedral space. Sorry mon cheri, our 1500 cu ft HT rooms will never be able to approach that. Similar areas of air moved (driver size): single 18", dual 15", quad 12", etc. Why not get the biggest driver and largest box you can afford if you only want point .1? My 2 cents.

I found this old thread about a horizontal LS: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/37909/339768.aspx#339768 The followng comes to mind. At the Pilgrimmage last yr, the Klipsch audio engineers mentioned that the Palladium was designed to have a very rigid "box". This was NOT true for our Heritage gear. One even mentioned how ?wobbly? the box on the LS was. When I got back home, I looked at my LSs and could easily feel vibrations from the sides of the "doghouse" (but not so much from the top surface). If clamped half way up, I would guess, that changing these vibrations would effect the sound, but I have no idea how much. Apparently these box vibrations are part of the aural experience of the LS. Whether we consider this as part part of the "pure" reproduction of the originally recorded sound or just a pleasant artificiaI enhancement is another issue. I presume, therefore, that laying a LS horizontal would "mess up" the vibrations from 1 side of the doghouse or woofer box. On my big subs; the framing of the 18" drivers was too weak, requiring a remount of 1 driver. I doubt this would be an issue on the woofer driver of a LS. However, 30 yr old foam and paper might not react well to a new direction of gravitational pull. But I have no real idea what to expect here. These could be the reasons why others have had aural issues with horiz LSs. So I propose a solution: lift the LS off from the floor. Maybe 4" would be enough. Because the LS, the HT components, and the proj TV will weigh in at 300 lbs, some 4" thick pieces of wood at the top and bottom ends of the horiz LS might be ok. Use some towels for sound/vibration isolation. Either 1 solid 4 x 4 x 24" wood piece top and bottom or 4" cubes at the corners - but NOT in the middle, so the resonance of the woofer box would be less effected. As for putting gear to the side of the LS, as stated before, the remotes will not hit the lower components (at/near floor level) from my position in bed lying down. At 24" up, or on top of the horiz LS, there would be no issue. I cannot place them to the side of the TV, as they would block the closet door; my space is horizontally challenged.

I love the suggestions and the link to the HT room. I have had an Outlaw Audio 150 rcvr that was damaged in Katrina. Just replaced it with a used Onkyo 805. Although the top of the 805 gets toasty it offers a wider range of options than the older 1050 and I honestly think it sounds better. (However, Outlaw service and support is outstanding). The 805 can also decode all of the new Dolby and DTS stuff and has Burr Brown DACs. I have yet to try only using the pre amp outs and using sep SS amps to keep the top cool, if that would even work. I would also consider popping the top off to see if I could disconnect the internal amp. The 805 also has an auto set up, but I simply used a RS sound meter for set up. I have Khorns up front in the main room, but have not yet used a LS as a center. I have used Academies since 1993. I bought my 1st Acad from a store that had old Paul Klipsch visiting that day. But I suspect that the LS would be better, same horns after all. Also, a bigger spkr will offer a bigger "sound stage". FYI PWK designed the Heresy I to match the Khorn. But I forget if he intented the H Is as a center or surrounds. In my system, the Acad is an inch above the floor and the rear proj 60" sony TV sits just above it on a shelf. Yet, I have noticed that sound seems to low - ei from the floor, not the person talking on the TV. I have a second Academy, but due to construction at home have yet to mount it above the TV to balance the center channel sound placement. I am currently planning to bring a LS into my bedroom for center channel use. Due to space issues, I have tower WF-34s for LT and RT. I could use a H I for LT ok, but no space for the RT H I now. I have a posting in the modification forum, as I plan to use a horizontally placed LS and possibly remove the horns and place them on top of the 55" proj TV in the bedroom. Please look at any fixing up on the Xovers. All of my spkrs need help. My KHs, LSs, HIs are 30 yrs old, HIIs are 20 yrs old and Acads (2) must be 15 yrs old now. Still thinking about ALKs for KHs and LSs (AA networks), not sure about the Heresys. Any thoughts as to Acads needing new parts at 15 yo? Fun hobby ain't it

My LaScala Is from the 70s do not have separate bass bin and horn sections. I think the black industrial version does have separate parts that fit together, like in a Khorn. I do not intend to saw the horn holding part off. I would just take the horns out by unscrewing them. Thus the cabinet would be otherwise untouched, but have "holes" where the 2 horns once were. I am unclear what is meant by mounting them in a new baffle. Do you mean that I would have to consider building a "box" to put them in? If so, of what dimensions, etc. I also have major horizontal space issues in the bedroom, with the bathroom door and a closet door sort of to the sides and behind the big TV and a hallway where I have put the sub and LT spkr. That was the reason for buying the WF-34s. lack of horizontal space. There is also basically no free space for the RT spkr too. If I stand the LS vertically (its normal position) I cannot mount the stereo/HT stuff without putting the TV to high. In an LCD or plasma TV that is really not an issue as they are evenly bright even if off angle. However, you cannot do that with a rear projection TV. If the "central beam" or angle is not coming right at you, you loose brightness. I would prefer not to tilt the TV down. This becomes an issue once the TV base is more than 2.5 ft above the floor; or more than 6 inches above the viewing spot (the bed). Even as is on top of the dresser, the picture is uneven when I lie down, although fine when I am sitting up. (It is just too big for the room). If I place the stereo/HT stuff stacked up from the floor, my remote will not hit the sensors from the bed due to the angle and/or my feet being in the way. At 2 ft up, as per placing the LaScala horizontal, there would be no problems with the remote. However, when horizontal, the center of each driver or horn is only at 1 ft above the floor and would aim for the mattress of the bed. As stated, if the horns would basically be ok without messing with them, fine. If not, would I likely notice the mis-timing of the horn and woofer sections?

1. I hope this is the correct forum. 2. Ok, this sounds nutty. But Q is based on preface that in order to get great sound from a horn, it must be in the "line of sight" of your ears. If this really would not matter, given my room and set-up, there would be no need to change anything on the LaScala. Also, would using a LaScala (I already own a pair) be overkill for my bedroom. BTW, I am considering doing this for my main room set up as well. Preface: bedroom, about 15 x 15 x 14' sloped ceiling bedroom. Foot of bed is 5' from TV, bed is 20" above floor, so I would be well below center line of a horizontally positioned LaScala, if used as a center channel. Current bedroom set up: WF 34s, KV2 center, crap surrounds, RSW-15 sub. Rear proj TV sits on top of about 2.5 ft high dresser-plan to move this so center can go under TV. I will be rearranging furniture and everyone has told me to go for the biggest center channel possible. I have kind of given up finding a low price decent shape Belle and already own a pair of LSs (and HIs, HIIs, Khorns, and 2 Acads too). So maybe I could move a rear speaker LaScala from the main room (replace with Heresy Is or IIs) and use it as a center. I also have a second Academy, but I am still thinking about placing that above my main room TV (so I can have 1 Acad above and 1 below the TV). May also change from WF 34s to Heresy Is or IIs (I already have 1 pair of each) as front spkrs. As per the jpg (made on Powerpoint and converted to jpg, since I don't have photoshop in PC), I think I could unscrew the midrange squaker and tweeter, add longer speaker wire to the AA Xover network (which may also be replaced with an ALK or just recapped), and place on top of the TV in under 2 hours. That would give me the biggest center possible and I could "point" the horns aimed aimed to my position sleeping or sitting in bed. As per the picture, I could also place the horns just below the TV, but off center, again aimed at my position in bed, but my feet would be in the line of sight between horns and ears sometimes. I don't think I need to worry about the horned LaScala cabinet for the woofer being aimed at the mattress, but any comments here also appreciated. I prefer not to tilt the LS 15 degrees or so off horizontal. That would require more wood, etc to support the TV and HT gear. The LS would be horizontal on a stone floor covered by a thin pad and thin carpeting. But it should be moderately well isolated acoustically from the floor. I still keep the sub on a small movers dolly, above the carpeted floor with the left WF-34 on top of it-using a small but strong box and a small blanket for acoustic isolation (looks ridiculous, but it seem to work). Qs: 1. When the horns are removed do I need to somehow cover the horn openings in the LaScala cabinet (to maintain the sonic integrity of the cabinet); if so, how? Given the woofer area remains unchanged would this matter? Is it simply cosmetic? 2. Once removed, do the horns need to be screwed into place firmly on a wooden board or can I simply use some lightweight wood on top of the rear proj TV, place some old towels on top (for sound isolation and for positioning), and then sit the horns on top of the towels - not solidly mounted? The horns as such, either tweeter on top of squaker or side by side, would not be enclosed in any sort of cabinet or box. Is this ok - do horns benefit from an enclosure for my purpose? 3. Given the slight difference (under 1 foot change) in distance between woofer to ear and horns to ear distances once the horns are moved, will my hearing sence that something is messed up? (EG, on my receivers, they ask for the spkr to listening area distance to adjust for this between DIFFERENT speakers, not diff components of the same speaker.) Thanx all. (Wow, the pic uploaded ok)

Few $200 range amps would be considered really great by most folks here. That stated, after Hurricane Katrina I aquired some more Adcom amps.The 555 and 535 are 1980s vintage and should be just fine. I can't speak to how well SS amps hold up over time, but suspect that old SS amps may need some internal parts tweeked or replaced. This seems to be true with those of us into tube amps. Even DIY tubes could easily set you back over $500. Don't forget that CL and other local ads might help too. Also, some full range receivers, if old, might be found locally and be just fine for you too.

Thx: Only a few knobs and switches on the RSW-15. The volume dial is on the side and has no markings per se, but the indent is at the 2 o clock position, so I guess I could increase the signal from the 805 and dial the RSW vol down to compensate. Current calibr using RS SPL analog meter: L+2, C+5, R+3.5 (spkrs are very assym placed), SR+3.5, SL+4.5, and Sub-RSW (-) 6.Maybe the - 6 is the crux of the prob. As I write this I had the vol on the 805 set to Dolby PL II Orchestra absolute 71 (about 88 dB, nml for me is at abslt 58, about 76 dB) when I turned on the radio (from loud Led Zep last night). Sure enough the sub kicked on !!! Xover is set, ?by prior owner to 105 Hz, Lowpass is set to LFE/disable Auto On = enable Polarity is 0 I called Klipsch support about another issue (heritage Xovers) a while back. They recc that you turn the RSW off when not in use. I asked because the top got a bit warm (not hot like the 805) from the amp being on, even in stdby mode. 1 of my WF-34s sits on top of the RSW, vibrations decoupled by some thin boxes and spare blankets.

The 2 Qs: 1. With the used Onkyo 805 rcvr I just got, I have been able to set up my Klipsch RSW-15 sub. However, anytime I listen to something, seemingly regardless of source input, the sub does not activate on its own. After I hit the test tones buttons, and get to sub, it activates a couple of seconds later. No diff between 1 plug in or using a Y splitter into R and L sub LFE inputs. Never had this issue with old Outlaw Audio 1050 receiver. After doing the test tones to activate the sub, it functions properly per surround or stereo setting. Just not sure why it does not do so in the first place. Anyone have a similar experience in their rig / in your set up, if so, how did "fix" it? 2. Does the Onkyo 805 have "HDMI pass thru"? That is, will video and audio "pass thru" just to the TV when the 805 is off? I am pretty sure the newer A/V 876 does this. Previously I connected all 3 HDMIs directly into my Sony TV (as my prior receiver did not have HDMI inputs) and used optical/coax for digital sound for times when I used the receiver to process the sound. The TV stereo sound via the direct HDMI cnxn was often ok when I was about to fall asleep, etc. Currectly I connect my 3 HDMI devices directly into the 805 and then have the HDMI out to TV - mostly for video, but the HDMI out to the TV is also config'd to send audio to the TV spkrs too. But with the 805 turned to standby (=off), nothing passes thru to the TV. As per the sub Q, is there some setting I should change? Other than that, works fine. Per others comments, the top surface does get very hot, even with 5" clearance. Cools quickly when off, but I will likely get a fan or a laptop type cooler fan set up for it. Electronics don't like heat. Still trying to figure out all of the surround choices between DD, DTS, THX, etc.

Put this in the FWIW column I now own 5 subs. 1 powered: RSW-15, built in ?BASH amp of some power, etc The other subs are passive, ergo, require an amp. 2 Mad Amp 2 x 18" drivers per cab - 2 x 2 x 4 ft cabinet. Smaller single 18s are a pair of used Behringer 1800s, old version, not the the newer Pro version. I have 2 old Adcom amps, bought post Katrina. A 555 and a ?2535?. I used them in bridged mono mode to fire up the Mad Amp subs for a few months. Cost, I think about $250 each with shipping. Via Ebay and/or Audiogon. Worked fine, but NO adj knobs. Then I bought 1000W rack sub amps from Parts Express at Xmas 07, on sale for $250 each, I think w cheap shipping. They don't sell these anymore, just the plate amp version. Also work great. Just got a single 500W plate amp for the Behrs, also from P E, about $250. To be honest in my rooms and for my set up I don't think the knobs make much of a diff. However, mentally I prefer the newer caps, etc in the new amps vs the caps in the 20 yr old amps, which are prob due for replacement. Just my 2 cents

I would love to learn more about the folks at the Argonne lab. Med school doc here. Also involved with PET scanning and radio isotopes. Email or PM me, thx. Interesting discussion here. No flames intended by me here now. When I tested my various amps in late summer, it lead me to believe that my 20 and 30 yr old xovers were "todt", "mort", dead. My methodology: I tested about 4 amps, SS, PP tube x 2 and SET tube. SPLs between 85-100+ dB, more or less. I orig tried using diff amps in mono to each of my Khorns. That was a mistake. Either due to room issues or diffs in each Khorn there was a definite diff between spkrs. So plan B, using the Khorn on my left I retested the amps fresh. I squared my body to that Khorn to keep perceived sound level equal to each ear. - Ear fatigue can be a prob - and yes, WE ALL perceive sound a bit diff than others, prob due to diffs in anatomy around our ears and that they are biologic, not electronic systms. Sources: Barry White, Steely Dan on vinyl with Bellari tube preamp - used gain/vol to adj system volume. Or I used some CDs or FM via my preamp processor. I used the left output RCA jack from the pre/pro (or bellari for vinyl tests), ran rca cable to near the amps, used a y splitter for rca, and had 2 mono Lt rcas -1 to each Lt input for each amp to be tested. Yes, I know, that will reduce the output voltage. From the amps, using fresh 14g Philips spkr wire from Home Depot I twisted and / or alligator clamped the neg leads from the amps to each other and the neg wire to the spkr. The + wire to the spkr had a radio shack type alligator clamp on it. I would touch it to the amp output + positive wires, 1 at a time. They were only an inch or so apart. So by moving my hand or wrist (in a particular and common motion) just a bit I could easily switch between the output of any amps tested. I usually listened for 5-30 sec then moved my hand to touch the other amp hot lead. On CD, I could "rewind a bit" too. That was the best methodology I could muster. And yes, I knew which amps were being compared. I wish to repeat my testing later this year after my Heritage spkrs are fixed up. Still debating whether to hust replace caps or do whole new X overs, like the ALKs, or the guys with new equiv AA, just all new parts, etc. Yup, part of it is the cost issue, but I am willing to do DIY ALKs. The sound from the amps was about the same. My conclusion: bad caps on the xovers, but waiting to fix them (as I have 4 million other projects that are more pressing currently and it's Mardi Gras time here). I am ok with sould for now, but look forward to the improvements to come. My 2 cents on fancy cables: I am not aware of the Pros using them when they record in studio; but pls post if I am wrong about this. Then again, rockers lke the Stones, etc, prob don't have much hearing left..... The monitor spkrs in studio are NOT meant to reproduce sound the way home use spkrs do. I do not understand the whys or hows of that, but M&K spkr users are always quick to point this out. Maybe diff connectors and cables have diff levels of ?impedance, ?conductance. Maybe the dielectric coatings between pos and neg leads can effect these parameters too. But I am not any kind of electrical guru. Maybe if there is an audio engineer on the froum, they could address this a bit more. In medicine there is a well known palcebo effect. In other words a patient feels better after using a "sugar" pill. Perhaps there is 1 in audio too. Happy Mardi Gras ALL (MG is this coming Tues; huge weekend now in NOLA, come on down)

My 2 cents on audio weirdness: I have read some, not all of these posts. I use 12 and some 14 g zip cord type speaker wire (lowest cost I could find, multi strand ? 80-300 strands per wire, can't tell if all of the wire spools were blessed as oxygen free copper), usually in 4-8 foot lengths; almost all new since Katrina. To be honest, my 20 yr old pre Katrina stuff looks nasty, is coated/rusted, but sounds fine - I just fingernailed off the gunk and rust from the wire edges, not aesthetic though. And even worse, hand twisted connections between pieces for longer lengths, or used home depot type nickel plated connector type plugs (5 cents each type) etc. Never thought to worry about it. As the audio engineers at Klipsch told me during the pilgr.. "they're just electrons, they don't care...." In reading other stuff on spkr wire, maybe there is something to impedance matching, etc. Maybe that explains why some use ethernet cable, cat 5 or 6, as spkr wire, with good reported effect. I have seen, but never used anything fancier than zip cord. Nope, I don't even even clearly separate power cords away. Given the constant repairs here, that turned out to be a real problem. I do the best I can. Eventually I will sep. off the power cables, maybe add a line conditioner (It has to be crappy in the French Quarter. Richard Gray, Power Company fame, is also in the local audio club and I plan to have him and others over by summer), and run nice clean 12g wire that I will likely Caig deoxidize, etc. Maybe it will make a noticable diff. Have also seen postings for rf shielding for the power cord itself. Someone claimed it improved his cable TV signal. I am willing to try that as well; why, it will only cost a few bucks and makes for a nice weekend project. As for interconnects, I went a bit bonkers: I hand built most of my own. Audioquest 1/1 audio, and 3.1 and 6.1 video cables, all using the ITC 24 plugs. Finding parts has been tough, as not much is for sale at a cheap price. Most bought via Ebay. I should have Caig deox'd the wire tips due to all of finger prints and oils.....oh well, found out about it too late. I did not follow the wire's supposed directionality. Yup, AQ tells you that the electrons should only run in 1 direction. I just plugged them in without regard to that. Have also bought 2-3 sets of the Belkin HT interconnect kits, about $13.00, at Sam's Club. They looked somewhat impressive on the package pictures and I ran out of plugs briefly. I also use cheap a** optical cables from the usual suspects: monoprice, parts express, mcm... My DVI and HDMI cables are a similar hodge podge. I do try to keep all cable / wire lengths as short as possible. To get rid of hum, I have grounded the TV cable and used cheater plugs on the sub amps. Most everything else uses 2 prong cords. In general, I have been very patient in shopping for good quality products at low prices. I am willing to try low cost solutions, even if moderately labor intensive. Since I may face another year of repair work putzing around, I do not wish to finalize anything yet. Where I might have to spend big bucks is on power conditioning, as the lines here are 40 plus years old. Please keep in mind: I work in an X-ray dep't. Power conditioning (or some equiv) and the like, along with huge UPS's are used. If hospital grade stuff like CT scanners, MRI units, etc don't require any other nutty solutions why should we??? (OK, we are a bit nutty too:) Trust me, if GE, Siemens, Philps, etc - the folks that make million dollar machines - thought that these would improve their products, they would do it in a second and charge a fortune for it. They don't.