MikeMilliken Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 OMG! I just listened to them. No time right now, but I'll post more pics and details later. Gotta get up at five tomorrow morning. Wow. Everything I had hoped for. Greg Pics and details please.......... This is the stuff I live for! Thank you for sharing this;). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 BMS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 BMS? I got a pair of BMS 4591 ceramic magnet and a pair of BMS 4592 midrange-only neodymium magnet so I could hear both. I started with the 4592 and haven't changed over yet. I've only had an hour or so to listen so far, but this is a very nice improvement over the K55/K400. The character of my Khorns is completely different now. I feel like I'm hearing "into" my system more than before. These are even more revealing now. UGGGH, time for a new amplifier. This midrange horn upgrade is not the first thing I would do to upgrade Khorns, I would go with the ALK Universal networks first, and I would probably do the Crites woofers next. But then, what to do? Trachorns are nice, and they get you into the Beyma tweeter as well, which is one of the nicest sounding tweeters I've heard, but you're still dealing with the K55 and the smaller format for the midrange. Within the confines of the Khorn cabinet, there's little more that can be done, which is why this 2" tractrix horn is such a winner in my book. This pushes the performance that last final step. It's about as far as you can go with the Khorn and keep it stock looking. I will make up a webpage soon that shows pictures and has these horns for sale, and I'll detail my listening impressions as well. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Thanks Greg -- I've always had a gut feeling that the 4591 would sound killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 I had a chance to do more listening today. I love the fact that you can change the midrange attenuation on the ALK Universal networks. I've played around with different settings and I ended up with the same settings that Al K uses with his JBL drivers, 0 - 1. The improvements I'm hearing are a result of all the upgrades, not just the mid horns. I've always like the sound of ALK Universal networks, and I loved those Beyma CP-25 tweeters that I put in the Russian Khorns, so having those two things to start with really make the top end of this whole package sing. The Crites cast-frame woofers are a nice improvement to the overall presentation as well. But let me tell you, these 2" wooden tractrix horns and the BMS 4592 drivers give the Khorn a completely different voice and character. The harshness and coloration that I've become so used to over the last thirty years from the K400/K55 combo are gone, and instead, I'm hearing big, wide open, smooth midrange sound that blends so well with the bass bins it's amazing. I've listened off-axis and they seem to disperse very well. Imaging is spot on, just terrific. I've spent time right in front of the driver, just inches away, at a relatively low volume, so I could really hear it, and it sounds so much better than the K69 in my Jubilees it's not even funny. It's not funny. What the heck is Klipsch doing even putting a cheap driver like the K69 in one of their speakers? I guess designing for movie theaters is not the same as for audiophile listening. I don't have to guess, I know that's what it is. It's a commercial mindset. Off topic . . . . I don't want to wax on and on about these, but I'm very happy with these horns right now. I can't wait to try different amplifiers that I have kicking around. So far I've listened with my SET tube amps and my Scott 299A (which is just a sweet piece), and I plan to try my MC2100 at some point, and then maybe the Dynaco MarkIII's. I'm realizing that I would like to have a really nice modern tube amp or monoblocs. It's something that is missing from my collection. Other than my SET's, everything I have is at least 20 years old! How did that happen? LOL Getting old. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 What the heck is Klipsch doing even putting a cheap driver like the K69 in one of their speakers? The comment has been made that you would have to spend a lot more money to best the K69. Since the PAudio is the same and only costs $189, that comment seems to be pretty accurate. The BMS cost about $450, yes? That is way over my head. Not as high as some TADs, but way more than I can afford.I love it that you have a two inch horn and tweeter that will fit in the top of a Khorn. Very cool! [Y] [Y] [Y] [Y] Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 What the heck is Klipsch doing even putting a cheap driver like the K69 in one of their speakers? The comment has been made that you would have to spend a lot more money to best the K69. Since the PAudio is the same and only costs $189, that comment seems to be pretty accurate. The BMS cost about $450, yes? That is way over my head. Not as high as some TADs, but way more than I can afford.I love it that you have a two inch horn and tweeter that will fit in the top of a Khorn. Very cool! Bruce Thanks Bruce. BTW - BMS drivers would make the cost of Jubilees $7,100 instead of $6,600. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Since the the BMS only goes out as far as the dual phase plug K-55, it can't be used for the 2-way Jubilee. The BMS is expensive, but not crazy expensive like the TAD which border on the absurd for most of us. With that said, if you cruise through the various forums, you'll find a few or more who have tried both and prefer the BMS with a tweeter over the TAD in a two-way. The P.Audio is a decent driver, I just think some don't care for the sound of titanium. The sound is pristine, but sounds thin compared to phenolic -- and they're merciless with less than perfect source material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 "BTW - BMS drivers would make the cost of Jubilees $7,100 instead of $6,600. " You forgot the markup on the parts, it would cost well over $8K. "you'll find a few or more who have tried both and prefer the BMS with a tweeter over the TAD in a two-way. " I would have to agree with that. The midrange driver from the Avantgarde Trio is less than the BMS, and I think it sounds better too. The tweeter for this driver must be capable of being crossed over at 4Khz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 "BTW - BMS drivers would make the cost of Jubilees $7,100 instead of $6,600. " You forgot the markup on the parts, it would cost well over $8K. LOL - They could probably buy them at a discount and then mark them up close to what we pay. I was really just making a generic point. I know the BMS won't work in a two-way system. What I should have said is, a better quality driver would probably only jump the price of Jubilees from about $6600 to about $7100. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Eight! Eight vwwooden trrrrractrrrrrix hvorns, ah ah ah! Hard to type the "Count". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Those are simply beautiful! Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Backs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Greg. You are simply a craftsman. It thrills me to see all those beautiful creations after all those emails and the phone calls. You didn't give up despite the frustration of "visualizing" the build and the challenge of seeing this in 3-D. People can talk the theory but to put it together is different. You have now become dangerous with a vision to create the midhorn of your liking. I am betting that you will come up with another one as you now have a taste of new design verses clean-up the gold standard with veneer exotica. Now you do both. I am a long die hard Klipsch fan as you are. And yet I as you can ask for more of a great thing. I'm certain those midhorns are gonna sing....pure tractix. I will say again PURE TRACTRIX. Also 2" drivers to fit in the khorn tophat. You just stepped into a new area....... Congrats..... jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossman Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I see the wooden plates for the back/throat of the horn, but what exactly will you use to screw the driver to the horn and how will you attach it? crossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 I see the wooden plates for the back/throat of the horn, but what exactly will you use to screw the driver to the horn and how will you attach it? crossman There are 1" thick motorboards that are milled out with the four-bolt pattern, and then those get bolted to the horn braces. I'll have more pictures and a webpage once I have them done. I'm just posting tease photos right now. [6] Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Greg. You are simply a craftsman. It thrills me to see all those beautiful creations after all those emails and the phone calls. You didn't give up despite the frustration of "visualizing" the build and the challenge of seeing this in 3-D. People can talk the theory but to put it together is different. You have now become dangerous with a vision to create the midhorn of your liking. I am betting that you will come up with another one as you now have a taste of new design verses clean-up the gold standard with veneer exotica. Now you do both. I am a long die hard Klipsch fan as you are. And yet I as you can ask for more of a great thing. I'm certain those midhorns are gonna sing....pure tractix. I will say again PURE TRACTRIX. Also 2" drivers to fit in the khorn tophat. You just stepped into a new area....... Congrats..... jc Thanks JC, I couldn't have done it without you. They really do sound wonderful, I'm very happy. Thanks to Gothover too, for some really good tips on the construction. I already have a plan for the next horn. Top secret. [] Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Those are simply beautiful! Bruce Thanks Bruce, I think they'll look even better once they're painted. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Greg, you are truly a sucker for punishment. Your horns look gorgeous. Just looking at that stack makes me hurt. I see you have 2 types of builds going on, are those left/right? Different versions? Looks like the double brace version would be easier to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Greg, you are truly a sucker for punishment. Your horns look gorgeous. Just looking at that stack makes me hurt. I see you have 2 types of builds going on, are those left/right? Different versions? Looks like the double brace version would be easier to build. I've got over 100 hours so far in the 10 I've built! I can do it quicker next time though. They are ambihornous. They can be flipped both ways to locate the tweeter inside the midhorn or outside. The double-brace ones were the first ones, and yes, you would think it would be easier, but there's a very complicated piece of wood to mill out on the front side and that makes it harder. I went through two different revisions before settling on the best way to build them. The good thing is, when you handle them, they all feel like they are carved out of a single piece of wood. Very rugged. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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