OT: Painting our house

[endover]

Looking for some good house painters out there... I live in Florida and we bought a 1978 house with cedar siding about 3 years ago. It's nearing time to paint(or stain) the exterior. As far as we can tell, the house has been STAINED since it was built so my question is whether I should PAINT or STAIN it this time? Which is better for a Florida environment? Since there is STAIN on it, should I stay with STAIN or can I PAINT over it? If I PAINT over it, what type of PAINT should I use? The exterior is in excellent condition so my tendancy is to stay with what's working which is STAIN. The house is a darker reddish brown and we're going to go with a slightly lighter color. How many coats should I expect to need? We're going to rent or buy a sprayer.

Thanks!

[fini]

Has the stain used been transparent, semi-transparent, or solid body? Paint is better at protecting the wood than stain, and lasts much longer. You'll want to be meticulous with the paint prep. When bare (worn stained) wood is exposed to the sun, it will start to lose its ability to grab the paint (and peel prematurely) if not prepped and primed properly, with good materials.

What type of cedar siding is it? Vertical plywood, or horizontal lapped? Smooth or resawn?

Thebes will probably chime in. He's a painter when he's not out looking for tubes...

[endover]

Not sure exactly what you mean by your first question but it was previously stained with Behr brand stain with a dark reddish brown tint added. I can get the exact type (just not right now) because we still have the cans from the previous owners. The siding is cedar vertical plywood that looks like rough cut lumber. There are vertical firring strips every 16 inches to cover the vertical seams between the plywood and also to add cosmetic texture. The existing stain job still looks good but it's getting sun-worn on the South side of the house and since we live in a humid/hurricane environment, we don't want to wait until we have problems before we paint/stain. Someone kept this looking nice for the last 31 years and I don't want to destroy it with my first painting effort.

[fini]

Hey, you're up early! I'm up in the middle of the night here...

Stains come in different grain coverage ability, from looking like just oiled to pretty much solid body (like paint). Also, it comes in oil and water-based (although the water-based may be for interior only). ANYWAY, sounds like since it's in good shape, IMHO you should reapply the stain. No problem staining just the sides needing it, although you'll want to do complete sides (not just part of a wall). You may find that the freshly stained walls make the others look like they need stain...

[thebes]

Yes by all means check the can and tells us what you have with some specificty. Behr, which is short for "really crappy cheap paint" comes in two flavors, semi-transparant and solid, also called solid hide. It could be oil or acrylic. Need to know that first.

[fini]

I knew da man would show up!

[endover]

Thanks Thebes...

That should show you my ignorance when it comes to paint quality. I thought Behr was the good stuff. I'll check the can tonight when I get home from work and see what it is.

[dtel]

Yea that's what i want to know, if Behr is cheap what is a good paint ?

[Joe Shmoe]

Man...I could have used this info last week []

Yes...if Behr is crap, what is "the" brand to buy?

[thebes]

For some strange reason Consumer Reports loves Behr. I consider it to be cheap junk, with a gallon usually costing less than half what I with my painters discount pay for for top-of-the-line products by Ben Moore, Sherwin Williams, Pittsburgh Paint, Duron (an East Coast brand) etc.

Some will say it's because they sell by volume but let me tell you the national brands move a lot of paint over the coarse of a year.

For exterior, you probably can't go wrong with Sherwin Williams Duration Exterior paints in Gloss, Satin and flat. This (and a few others on the market) was designed expressly to be able to go directly over an oil finish without priming, in response to EPA regs banning oil paints on most of the West and East coasts.

My price is about $50 a gallon in the DC area so figure $60 top $65 to consumer. A typical house with brick/vinyl siding, so basically painting trim only, will use two to four gallons so the extra cost is negligible.

Comes with a "lifetime" guarantee, which simply means they will give you a gallon of free paint if you remember to keep the receipt for a decade. I would figure about 10 years from one coat of this product, 12 to 13 with two, assuming proper preparation of surfaces. Dries for rain in about four hours, full cure 3 to 4 weeks.

Also, repeat after me, there is simply no reason to use oil topcoats any more with products like these on the market. Current formulations of oil are junk. Oil primers are acceptable and are recommended for use on new wood and touch-up on exterior repaints.

[michael hurd]

I would agree with thebes about no reason for oil base exterior paints anymore, the acrylic latex paints are quite good nowdays, and are more flexible than an oil base, better on wood. Plus the fact that odor is low, cleanup is a snap and old oil bases can grow mold or chalk up when the binder degrades. In the limited stuff I have done ( mostly interior ) I have used Pratt and Lambert with great success. Like anything else, the preparation is key.

[whatever55]

Thebes,

I have a question about decks... oil or latex and if you would any favorite brand.

Thanks

[endover]

Okay Thebes...here's the goods. I remembered to read the side of the paint can.

The house has been painted/stained with:

Behr, Plus10, Solid Color, House Fence Stain, Oil-Latex Formula, Water Clean-up, Made for Vertical Surfaces, 10 year warranty.

What's the recommended product to paint or stain over it (that won't break a bank)? The stuff you listed above sounds pretty expensive to me since I'll probably have to put at least 2 coats on (we're going to a lighter color). Would it be cheaper for me to buy some type of cheaper primer and then coat it with good stuff?????

[fini]

Any sub-par (cheap) product in the process (or, say, sub-par prep) will contribute to a sub-par job. Spend that 80-90% of your time prepping and priming, and the topcoat will be a joy to apply (with a top quality paint).

I love Benjamin Moore interior paints. I haven't painted my exterior yet (long overdue!). Out of the corner of my eye I saw a commercial for a 30% off sale at Sherwin Williams (through the 26th, I think?). Can't find reliable info on this online, so it would be best to call your local store.

If you're "flexible" on paint color, a bargain approach is to check quality paint stores (as Marty mentioned) for "mis-tints" (they usually mix [batch] many gallons of similar tone, ending up with a gray, tan, or brownish color, so folks will have enough of the same color for a decent-sized project). Might be useful as a first coat if your final color is close.

[Mr Tech]

endover,

It sounds like my house has the same "rough side out" cedar siding that you have. What part of Florida are you in?

I have my house sprayed about every 5 years with "CWF" (Clear or Cedar Wood Finish) with the cedar tint in it and w/UV protection . Available at Home Depot.

The wood looks gorgeous, especially right after its been freshly sprayed. This finish maintains and beautifies the natural cedar wood look.

It does seems to dry out and gets some mildew on the bottom after 4-5 years. I guess the rain & sun gets to it.

My painter says it would probaly last longer if I had gutters to keep some of the water off it.

Another cedar wood house in my neighborhood used to look very similar to mine and then they went & painted it with dark brown paint.

It now looks horrible. IMO they totally ruined their "cedar wood look".

Wade

[endover]

I'm in West Melbourne which is about half-way between Jacksonville and Miami.

The CWF actually sounds pretty good as I'm sure it protects the wood but my house is already stained a dark brownish red and my wife wants to change the color to something a little lighter...and we all know who's going to win that argument. Is the CWF only to be used on bare wood?

It's a good size house (about 3500 square feet TOTAL under roof) so it's going to take quite a bit of paint.

[joshnich]

In regards to decks....I have a a lot of redwood deck space that gets a lot of sun with s southeastern exposure. I have tried a number of products and found that for me the one that lasts the longest is Super Deck stains. With other products I have had to powerwash and restain every other year. The Super Deck products give me a good 4 years of service. Wouldnt use anything else.

Josh

[Z4!]

While I lived in Atlanta, we used a product called TWP (Total Wood Protection) on our wood decks and fences. It is a great product, lasts much longer than the wood sealants you get at Home Depot or Lowe's.

http://www.woodsealants.com/

[Mr Tech]

The CWF actually sounds pretty good as I'm sure it protects the wood but my house is already stained a dark brownish red and my wife wants to change the color to something a little lighter...and we all know who's going to win that argument. Is the CWF only to be used on bare wood?

CWF kinda looks like varnish to me. As far as I know, it comes in "clear" and "cedar tone". We have always used the cedar tone.

Ours certainly isn't light, but it isn't real dark either. It's probably a little darker than brand new unfinished cedar.

Every 5 years my painter just pressure washes the house and then sprays the CWF on. He's probably sprayed it 3 or 4 tmes for me over the past 18 years.

Perhaps a serious pressure washing with mineral spirits would take some of the dark stain color out of yours and then CWF it?
I say that because one of the times that my house was sprayed, the painter's workers got a totally different product than CWF and sprayed it instead.
I came home and freaked. It looked like they had sprayed it with orange paint. It looked awful.
I called the painter and told him to get that stuff off of there before it totally dries.
I remember him telling me that he thought he bought every gallon of mineral spirits in town getting that stuff off.
It was definately lighter after the mineral spirit wash, but looked as gorgeous as ever when he came back and sprayed the CWF.
He probably lost a fair amount of money on that job, but the upside was that we didn't see any bugs for a long time after that.

[thebes]

Endover, what you will want to get is an acrylic solid hide stain from any major painting company. By that I mean Sherwin Williams, BenMoore, PPG, or whatever other reputable stand-alone paint shop in your your area. Do not buy from a hardware or big box store. If you have Duron down that far their stains are also well done. Stains only come in gallons so you will have to spring for a gallon and do a test on an area to see if the color you chose hides in one go. Exterior stains hide remarkably well so if you don't go from say brown to white, you may well only need one coat. You could also change out the trim around doors and windows for a completly new look on your house.

Your fist step is to hire a professional power washer, not a college kid, or fly-by-nighter. They will remove all the dirt and mildew without scoring the wood by getting the pressure too close to the wood.

Then you want to check existing caulking and fix that. Since you have rough wood use a wet rag instead of your finger when smoothing out a caulk line. Also since you have rough wood use a wire brush for any peeling or flaking stain. Yes, solid hide stain can peel and flake, and yes if it is, you'd best get it off your house and not simply paint over it.

Buy a 3" or 4" flat (not sash) Purdy "all paints" brush, a seven inch roller, two at least 3/4's" up to 1 and 1/14 " roller covers, one two gallon bucket, a two gallon bucket screen and a painters hook. Start at the top on a shady side of the house and work your way across one section of the house at a time. Apply paint with roller than back brush with the brush. Do not just roll it on. This step works it into the wood. You want to try to keep a wet edge on the stain so with vertical wood you would paint top to bottom on two or three panels. Horizontal surfaces the opposite. If you get lazy about this you will end up with a paint job that will look like crap.

To recap:

DON'T BUY CHEAP STAIN

PAINT IN THE SHADE

COMPLETE ONE SECTION AT A TIME NOT THE WHOLE WALL AT ONCE

BACK BRUSH

Look, Endover, every person on the planet wants a cheap paint job, and bigger the house the less they want to spend. Stain is cheaper than replacement wood, and will protect the cedar from being drilled out by mice, rats, woodpeckers, carpenter bees etc.

Next time buy a smaller house.[]

Mr. Tech. He can't use CWF because he can't get the solid hide stain off. Trust me on this.

As far as deck stains, I don't do a lot of decks but if I had a new one, I'd almost for sure use Sikkins which is a pain to apply but lasts a long time. You can use it on older decks which are in really good shape and properly prepared.