sebrof Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Hello All - I just picked up a pair of 1965 Klipschorns today and have been listening for a couple of hours. They're sounding better and better as I tweak their position in the room, room treatments, cables, and amps. I have 2 amps that I believe are overkill for these speakers but actually have been doing a pretty good job. A 100wpc Jolida EL34 and a SS Primare @ 75wpc. I'm not convinced the best place for them is flush in the corners. I've pulled them a couple of inches and I'm also adjusting toe-in a few inches either way. My dedicated 2 channel room is about 13' x 12', 9' ceiling. So far I'm pleased, although I've got some work to do. I like the detail, more detail than my Martin Logans. But the upper freqs are a little harsh, and I don't find the sound to be balanced. If I crank it to fill the room then the highs are too loud. Some music sounds very good, mostly simple acoustic. Bass is tight. No specific questions right now, just checking in and saying hello. But any general recommendations would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Welcome to the forums! Klipschorns NEED corners to sound their best. The wall is designed to act as an extension to the bass horn. There's a reason why your highs are overpowering your lows - put 'em back in the corners! [] Also one thing that would help immensely is to replace the crossovers or at least the capacitors in them. If they're the originals you owe it to yourself to bring them back up to spec. Post pictures if you get a chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted May 14, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 14, 2009 Welcome and congratulations. What Wuzzer said is correct, they were designed to be tight in the corner, to the point of being sealed with different things. Others will jump in and give you some ideas on sealing and other ways to get the best out of them, have fun and take it slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 You can ease some harshness with a Cardas 300b interconnect cable. Someone will be along soon to say BS, Martin-Logans to Khorns is a big jump, you'll need to get control of those horns. Thanks, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Yes, I ended up with them very close to the corners. But what about toe in? Is it not important? When they're flush in the corners the cross about 1' in front of me. As far as the crossovers, I'll replace the 44 year old wires first. They look to be very easy to replace - Any suggestions on the internal wiring or just get good copper wire? Thanks for the response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Welcome and congratulations. What Wuzzer said is correct, they were designed to be tight in the corner, to the point of being sealed with different things. Others will jump in and give you some ideas on sealing and other ways to get the best out of them, have fun and take it slow. Take it slow is right. I switched from Maggies to Logans and at first I thought it was a mistake. But after a few weeks and some posts to the owner's forum I ended up with a very satisfying setup. I'm only here for the sake of change, I found nothing about the Logans I really didn't like. When I first fired up the K-Horns if I wasn't so stinkin' tired from muscling them upstairs I probably would have moved them back down stairs. But I remembered my Maggie to Loagn switch so I kept the faith. After only a few hours I can hear they're sounding much better. The Jolida tube amp is winning out over the SS amp, and I'm pretty sure if I get an amp better suited to the K-Horns I'll take a big step forward.The detail in the music is very impressive. The overall presentation still needs work. Thanks for the reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 You can ease some harshness with a Cardas 300b interconnect cable. Someone will be along soon to say BS, Martin-Logans to Khorns is a big jump, you'll need to get control of those horns. Thanks, Russ Thanks Russ. I plan to replace the internal wiring first. For interconnects I have a few lower end straightwire and Nordost, and a DIY I made. For speaker wires I have zip cord and Speltz anti-cables (which worked very well on the Logans). I've got some "big knob" dialing in (placement, room treatments, amp) before I attack the "little knob" stuff (cables). As far as room treatments go - Any general rules for treating the front wall (behind speaker wall)? It was almost bare but I'm thinking that some hi-freq absorption panels would help. Thanks for the reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Welcome to the Klipsch forum! Nice way to jump in with a pair of K-horns, your going to love them..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted May 14, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 14, 2009 I don't have Khorns so I have no experience with them but if you don't get any more replies here, start a thread about placement and treating the back wall. There are many here with tons of experience in just what your dealing with right now they just need to read this and they will give you some ideas on what they have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 So you live in Annapolis? Are you in luck. There's several Forum members in the DC ara that own Khorns, and I sure one or two could be (rather easily) talked into giving you a hand on dialing them in. By the way what type xoover? There is a whole bizarre subculture here devoted to this whole Khorns xover stuff. Yes, please put them back in the corner and scootch your chair forward a foot or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 So you live in Annapolis? Are you in luck. There's several Forum members in the DC ara that own Khorns, and I sure one or two could be (rather easily) talked into giving you a hand on dialing them in. By the way what type xoover? There is a whole bizarre subculture here devoted to this whole Khorns xover stuff. Yes, please put them back in the corner and scootch your chair forward a foot or so. No, I live in Texas. I'll be glad to get a smaller tube amp - These 8 EL34s heat me out of the room in the summertime.These '65s have the 1RB crossovers. Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll post specific questions in a spearate thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Roland Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Welcome to the Forum and congratulations on the purchase of your K-horns! Buy yourself some of that cylindrical foam pipe insulation at your local hardware and cut it to fit those parts of the tailboard that fit in the room corners to seal those bass bins tight into the corner. You are defeating the whole design concept behind corner horns if you pull them out of the corners. Even though there's not too much difference in the dimensions of your room, it is usually best to put the K-horns along the long wall. If you want you can detach the top hat from the bass bin and rotate it a little to aim it at your listening position. Try it both ways and do a lot of listening. Take it slowly. Bob Crites on this forum can provide good crossover rebuilds or updates. Best wishes, George Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Welcome to the forum from a fellow Texan [Y]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 Welcome to the Forum and congratulations on the purchase of your K-horns! Buy yourself some of that cylindrical foam pipe insulation at your local hardware and cut it to fit those parts of the tailboard that fit in the room corners to seal those bass bins tight into the corner. You are defeating the whole design concept behind corner horns if you pull them out of the corners. Even though there's not too much difference in the dimensions of your room, it is usually best to put the K-horns along the long wall. If you want you can detach the top hat from the bass bin and rotate it a little to aim it at your listening position. Try it both ways and do a lot of listening. Take it slowly. Bob Crites on this forum can provide good crossover rebuilds or updates. Best wishes, George Roland Thanks for the response, George. I will try detaching the top and rotating. I'm only talking about a few inches so it's certainly doable. After about 10 hrs of listening I have them flush into the corners and starting to sound good. I really like the detail on acoustic guitar, vocals, sax and horns. It can get a little harsh with the wrong source material (either the recording or the music) so I'm still tweaking. I really like the much wider sweet spot as compared to Martin Logans. Right now the Logans sounded better on average, the K-Horns sound much better on some material and much worse on others. Low level listening on the K-Horns is very nice on almost anything. That tells me that the room has a lot to do with it. My plan is to get the bass right, get the toe-in of the Mids/Highs right, then work on the room. This is all under the premise that I need a more suitable amp. My 100 watter is up for sale now. I also plan to replace the internal wiring and crossover caps only because that stuff is 44 years old. If budget allows I'll probably get a new crossover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Yes, I ended up with them very close to the corners. But what about toe in? Is it not important? When they're flush in the corners the cross about 1' in front of me. ........ Actually, that geometry sounds just about right. The pipe foam is a great idea also. As far as the wire goes, I would simply clean up the surfaces that make electrical contact and leave it that. If you have many hours to spare, you may want to search the threads on capacitor upgrades for the crossover. The recommendations range from simply refreshing the caps (no re-design) to some much more expensive solutions (re-design). At the very least $25 worth of caps will get them back to stock performance and is a very good bang for the buck. If you wnat to get a bit fancier, then you can bypass the caps (2nd smaller one in parallel - search the threads). As far as fancy cables etc, don't worry about it. Listen, listen, listen. There is plenty of time for the other nonsense later on. Good luck and congratulations on your new Klipschorns. -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 Welcome fellow Texan! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebrof Posted May 15, 2009 Author Share Posted May 15, 2009 Thanks for all the replies - Lots of ideas, and enough things for me to try for the next couple of weeks or so. One pretty significant thing I stumbled accross poking around and searching 'room treatments' in these forums is putting HF absorptive panels in the walls / corners opposite each speaker (i.e.: the corner that each speaker is pointing towards). Years in this hobby, especially having panels and electrostatics, taught me to carefully treat the front wall behind the speakers. I say not so with K-Horns. The first reflection point seems to be the opposite corners. I put a panel in one corner and I draped a thick blanket over the door in the other corner and it really tamed the HF echo. I already have a very expensive "Persian" rug I got at Home Depot for $30 hanging on the wall behind my head, and drapes on another wall, and an 8' x 3' 10-shelf CD rack on the wall oposite the curtains. So it's certainly not like my room is bare. Treating the opposite corners made a huge difference. I feel like I'm winning the battle. I'll have these things singing in no time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted May 15, 2009 Share Posted May 15, 2009 One pretty significant thing I stumbled accross poking around and searching 'room treatments' in these forums is putting HF absorptive panels in the walls / corners opposite each speaker Love it, treating the problem (room acoustics) rather than throwing money (cables, doo-hickeys...) at the symptons. The editors of the audiophile rags are sweating right now. Greetings from Big-D & another pair of K's. PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 A cable is cheaper than room treatments, more effective at changing tonal balance also. Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipbarrett Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 A cable is cheaper than room treatments, more effective at changing tonal balance also. Au contraire. You can build effective room treatments for small $, heck I could build a studio for the price of some Pears. If the room is the problem why would you not treat that first? PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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