akshobhyavajra Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mdeneen: At the outset, I'm sure the designer/manufacturer never intended this thing to be a state-of-the-art amp. It fills an interesting slot for VERY low cost design. I dare say the average DIYer, including me, could barely buy the parts list for under $100 in low quantities. What intrigues me slightly is that for the $100 you might be getting a nifty platform from which you could add a few more bux and make a significantly better amplifier. Or maybe not if the xfrmrs are simply too cheap. mdeneen Good point about the platform - a buddy of mine had a $175 Pioneer tricked out for about $500 and now he is selling his $1200 Bel Canto DAC - because the little DVD blows it away. After years of spending too much money on high-end stuff I've become a believer in sending components out to people like Dan Wright in Oregon or Andy Bartha in Florida for mods... I just ordered some Waves for one of my systems - already got some Telam ECL82s for it as an initial upgrade to stock tubes. Hi-end does not have to be high money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 nice first post - welcome aboard akshobhyavajra! ------------------ deanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 umm, here's what I thought: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0302/aslwave8.htm ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshobhyavajra Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Colin: umm, here's what I thought: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0302/aslwave8.htm Based on the article I'll have something good to look forward to... one point however - according to a technician from the company the Wave's don't use PCL82 tubes - that's a mistake on the website. After I received the e-mail I even called Canada back to confirm. The Wave uses standard 6BM8/ECL82 dual tube (with triode and pentode sections). I am not sure what all the differences between the 16A8/PCL82 and the 6BM8/ECL82 are (except that its heater must be fed from 16 rather than the more common 6.3 Volts, if I remember correctly), but the guy from Divergent was pretty emphatic about not using the PCL82. All this aside, they are a wonderful bargain for anyone who likes owning a mutitude of tube amps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshobhyavajra Posted March 12, 2002 Share Posted March 12, 2002 quote: Originally posted by deang: nice first post - welcome aboard akshobhyavajra! Thanks. Like Colin I always look for the big bang/buck equation. One of my favorite little toys is Steve Deckert's little creation, the ZEN SE84. I am running mine with the very cool 1950ies French-made 5Y3GB Mazda rectifier and a very soft and sweet 6922 CV5358 Brimar tube...one of my favs... here is a little bit about the ZEN.... http://www.arduman.com/aa/Sayfalar/michael/michael.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 I had to know what all the fuss was about the Waves,so I ordered a pair and they have been on since Wednesday 3:00pm. I never turn my equipment off. Straight out of the box they are ok. My Parasound HCA-1500 had a better "feel", but break in is everything. Day 2. Starting to sound a little better, but... This morning started with Miles Davis "Kinda Blue". As I was listening and drinking coffee I was thinking it's only $250. Switched to some blues and they sounded better. I just ordered 4 SVET 6BM8 tubes. If I can get anyone to answer me from Audio Notes or Michael Percy I am going to do the "Mon" upgrade. These are nice for the price, but if you have a good SS amp you are not going to be blown away with these IMHO. I wanted to get a kit, but was kinda nervous about building one. That's why I got the Waves. The upgrade will cost about $145.00 (Tubes, Caps and resistor's). This will bring the Waves up to about $405. I still don't think I could have gotten in to tubes this cheap. Once again they are nice, but don't be expecting to be blown away. If you want to be blown away get a modified AES-AE3 preamp. I will review that next week. That's what really got me excited about tubes. Unreal. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 15, 2002 Author Share Posted March 15, 2002 What is the "Mon" upgrade? Where do I find info about it? Please post your results from the tube replacement. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted March 15, 2002 Share Posted March 15, 2002 John, See Mobiles response above. The guy who wrote it was called "Mon". He changed R4,R7,R10 and R11. He replaced the coupling caps with .47uF 450V Auricaps. I have ordered the tubes today. The Tube Store. I ordered the AN Tant Resistors. Audio Notes. I sent an email to Michael Percy yesterday, but have not heard from him yet. If I don't hear back from him by Monday I'm going to go with VSHAY(sp?) resistors and Jensen PIO caps from Welborne Labs. I will let you know about the tube upgrade. They should be here in 5-6 business days. If you go to Audio Asylum under tubes and search "mon" you can see alot of info on the waves. One person asked the question about coupling caps this week. He is going to change out the caps either tonight or Saturday. He will respond back after burn in. I sent an email and he said the SVET tubes made the amps alot warmer. He also said give it a week with the original tubes it warms up. After 3 days they still sound a little harsh to me. Joesph Lau (sp?) the designer of the Waves responded that changing the caps to a .47uF will increase the bass. I hope so. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 15, 2002 Author Share Posted March 15, 2002 Danny, If I understand the schematic, the coupling caps are C4 & C5 and are .47 uF already. The power supply caps look too small compared to SS amps; 147 uF?! What about increasing those? I guess youd need to put it on a scope to check for ripple. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 John, The caps to replace are C4 and C5. The schematic does show them to be .47. I have read that they are really .22 I think if you upgrade the caps you will get a fuller sound. I am going to order 4 Jenson PIO caps and 4 1k resistors today. After listening to these all weekend I still think these amps are ok. I am hoping the mod gets rid of the "tin" sound. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 18, 2002 Author Share Posted March 18, 2002 I'm going to try changing the tubes. Anybody know a good place to get Svetlana tubes? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted March 18, 2002 Share Posted March 18, 2002 Try Ned at; http://www.triodeelectronics.com. Klipsch out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshobhyavajra Posted March 19, 2002 Share Posted March 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by John Albright: I'm going to try changing the tubes. Anybody know a good place to get Svetlana tubes? John John, The Tubestore carries Svetlana tubes: http://store.yahoo.com/thetubestore/svetlana6bm8.html I actually like the Ei tubes, but I am trying some NOS Telam tubes now - not quite burned in yet, but they seem more detailed and a bit warmer. I buy them from a Ken Chait here in Florida: http://tubeman.com/item33.htm He's also got NOS Svetlana's (SVETLANA 6BM8SV): http://tubeman.com/item194.htm Hope this helps.... ------------------ AMC CD8b CD Player MSB Link III 24/96 Zen Triode Amp SE84C Klipsch Reference RP3 MIT Terminator 2 RWA Power cord Vans Evers Conditioners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 For what its worth I swapped the Ei tubes with the Svet tubes last night. After listening to a couple CD's I have to admit the amps sound alittle better. They sound fuller. They still sound slow to me. An example to me is when I play the first song off Kinda Blue when Miles comes in it sounds like his horn distorts, its not a clean sound. On the whole they are starting to either sound better or I'm getting use to them. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Which version of Kind of Blue are you listening to? The Sony Super Bit Mapping CD that you see all over is a HUGE disappointment and is SO inferior to the vinyl, it is almost painful. I have a copy that was given to me and cannot even listen to it. Still, you must remember once again that the AV-8 Wave amplifiers are really designed to meet a price point. They are amazing for the price but the iron and parts do not add up to giant killer status as far as tube amps go. They will smoke many solid state offerings if set up properly. Some have gotten better results with cap and resistor mods. These are great little amps to acquire to get a taste of tube amplification, yet to walk away (not saying you are doing this) thinking this is representative of what tubes have to offer is just not seeing the whole picture. I was a little confused at your example of slow sound; you mention Mile's horn distorts etc. How this is indicative of slow I am not sure. Still, this sounds like some other problem. Jazz via tubes is an order of magnitude better than typical solid state, and even A-typical SS. kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 I think I have the same recording of KOB that Danny has. The CD in question is COLUMBIA/Legacy CK 64935. There are a number of places thruout the CD where Miles's trumpet sounds distorted. I'm not sure if it is supposed to sound like that because I do not own the LP. There is a tremendous amount of hiss on this recording as well (also very evident on the first track). I will say this however, I can't get enough of this recording. Even with all of it's faults, the music itself just forces you to listen to it... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 That is the CD. If you look at the small print at the bottom, you will see that Sony Super Bit Mapping is used. I cannot stress how bad a version of this classic recording this is. Of all the versions of this record, I find this the worst. This album is rightly considered by many to be on of the all time best jazz sessions ever, and the good vinyl versions are just excellent. This album has been issued more than a few times. That Columbia/Legacy CD was distributed in places like K-Mart and Target (among other places) at around $9 so it was snatched up like hot cakes. If only the recording held the resolution of the vinyl. The two takes of Flamenco Sketches are worth it with the alternate second version not available on the vinyl. Ironically enough, the Columbia recording here was remixed on an all tube three track and claims fuller sound. It also corrected the speed problems on three tracks evident in the orignal release and reissues. Still, even despite all this, I find this CD nowhere near the life of the vinyl. It just does not have the harmonic richness of the vinyl version, even of the cheaper re-issues on vinyl. The vinyl also has more resolution and a sense of air around the performers which the CD manages to miss out on. IF any of you do have a TT, you owe it to yourself to get the vinyl, which was actually just released yet again at 180grams. It will cost you a bit but is well worth it. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Mobile, Glad to see you back. I don't know if slow is the word. Distortion is better. Thanks to you for mentioning Art Pepper I kinda put it in the back of my mind to check him out. I was reading a Michael Connely book Saturday and he mentioned Art Pepper meets the Rhythm Section. I went out Saturday night and I found it. When I got back to the house I put it on and it sounded so good. To me not quite as smooth as my Parasound, but good. Like everyone I played drums when I was younger. I want cymbals and drums to sound like they should. I'm still playing with the Waves. I put in the Svet tubes last night. I ordered Jenson Caps and 1K resistors from Welborne. I ordered the other resistors from Audio Note. I just got off the phone with Kevin and ordered a pair of Asylum Power cables and a pair of Superlative IC kit. This is the last thing I buy for the waves or anything for that matter. I just signed all the paper work to buy a new house. As Willie Dixon said "I ain't broke, just badly bent". The Waves were a least cost option to get into tubes for me. What I lost in the divorce last year I could have bought so much more, but I wouldn't take the money back and live in that situation again. Changing the subject Mobile. When you first appeared I thought you were a smart *** who knew alot, but had no equipment. I want to apologize. You know your stuff and have been so helpful to me and this board. I agreed with you about speaker wire, but the rest at first I thought you were blowing smoke. Now I believe. Tube Pre amps, the only way to go. Tube amps ,ditto. The last thing I read from you said that IC, wire, speakers, even equipment cabinets make a difference. Once again you are right. My equipment cabinet has a mesh door on front. I have found if I leave it open no more than three inches my system is dead quite. If I open it any more or close it I have hiss. When I move I am going to try and make the DIY equipment stand using 5/8" threaded rods. New question for you. What kind of wood. I was going to use MDF, but after reading through the AA I may use Birch Plywood. Answer Mobile, before I spend money that i don't have. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 Oh man, I have the same Columbia release, a.k.a Sony bit mapping. I noticed the horn distortion as well, it must be the CD. Have you guys ever noticed how the solos seem to launch at you, in a aggresive way? Except the Piano, which seems buried. Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 21, 2002 Share Posted March 21, 2002 That's it in a nutshell, Mike! You have to admit though, Coltrane sounds unbelievable on this CD... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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