greg928gts Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Greg, I'm pretty sure your Beyma CP-09 is mounted wrong. The "cheeks" should be the other way with the "Slot" in the throat vertical. It is a constant directivity tweeter and also needs to be equalized. It will not work correctly when connected directly to the tweeter output of the network. Al K. So it's different than the CP25 then? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Greg, Yes, it's different. The CP25 does not have the vertical slot in the center like the CP09. Look at the pdf sheet djk posted a few days ago. Look how the drawing shows it positioned. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted June 21, 2009 Author Share Posted June 21, 2009 Yesterday I sat about 10' in front of one of the Cornwalls, blindfolded, and my wife switched the wires from one tweeter to another while I listened. She had three small pieces of paper with numbers 1,2, and 3 on them, and after I sat down, she arranged them in random order beside each of the three tweeters. I would give her the number of the tweeter on one hand and she would switch the wires to that tweeter, then I would give a thumbs up or down with the other hand for the attenuation. I had the Cd player on 'repeat' so it was playing the same song over and over. I quickly eliminated tweeter #1 and focused on #2 and #3, and it was very difficult to tell which one I liked better. I really never could decide, but in the end gave a nod to #2, thinking it was just a bit smoother sounding. #1 was the Beyma #2 was the original K77 square magnet #3 was the Ciare. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Nice test, and surprising results. I am really impressed that your wife participated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Update. I've been listening to these for a while now in my small listening room in my shop and they are really sounding very nice. I still think there's too much midrange coming from the woofer, so I'm going to try a Universal network in them and cross the mid and woofer at 400Hz to see how that sounds. The real issue there is that 400Hz is the Fc of the mid horn. Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with too much "low mid"? Would a 12db slope help? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Greg why did you use the CP09 instead of the Beyma CP-25 that is in your V-Trac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Update. I've been listening to these for a while now in my small listening room in my shop and they are really sounding very nice. I still think there's too much midrange coming from the woofer, so I'm going to try a Universal network in them and cross the mid and woofer at 400Hz to see how that sounds. The real issue there is that 400Hz is the Fc of the mid horn. Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with too much "low mid"? Would a 12db slope help? Greg No test for the 2404? "too much midrange coming from the woofer" Welcome to world reflex.[] smile and wink That is exactly what my ear tells me in a reflex bin, even with double 15" woofers. Cross the mids as low as possable. Keep the LF in the bin and the mids in the horn. tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Greg, I have been running an activer for the last few weeks, and I prefer the woofer at 600Hz. If you have the chance to use an active for testing I absolutely reccomend you give it a shot. The actives don't necessarily sound that much better than a good passive, but is an incredible tool for on the fly adjustements. I was thinking of using the Behringer DCX 2496 with 3 T- amps for testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 Greg why did you use the CP09 instead of the Beyma CP-25 that is in your V-Trac? See previous posts. I ended up with the K77 as my choice. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 Update. I've been listening to these for a while now in my small listening room in my shop and they are really sounding very nice. I still think there's too much midrange coming from the woofer, so I'm going to try a Universal network in them and cross the mid and woofer at 400Hz to see how that sounds. The real issue there is that 400Hz is the Fc of the mid horn. Does anyone have any suggestions for dealing with too much "low mid"? Would a 12db slope help? Greg No test for the 2404? "too much midrange coming from the woofer" Welcome to world reflex. smile and wink That is exactly what my ear tells me in a reflex bin, even with double 15" woofers. Cross the mids as low as possable. Keep the LF in the bin and the mids in the horn. tc The 2404 wouldn't fit, and neither would the CP-25 - the way I laid out everything. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consistent Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Did you try the k77 in the vertical...to me it sounds way better! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 tc, I love the Avatar. I am torn between the 600Hz XO and the 400Hz XO. I've had situations in which I prefer one over the other. The first Key I think is the better midhorn for the Corn, then the driver. Then comes the XO point. Back in the day when I had Cornscalas (single woofer) in my house, the big change to me was the K401 over the K600. I was XO'ed at 600Hz with an ALK B. Worked great. Played that way for the longest time. Then I changed to a network in which the mid was Xo'ed at 400Hz. I liked that too and noticed marginal difference. Later....I went all ESN 3 way with the XO at 700Hz. That was my favorite. There was a serious "thwack" to that system. Some of that could have been the ESN....not sure. With the dbb's....holy moly....I went through a bunch of networks on that one. XO'ed at 400 with the 511 and ~6000Hz for the 2404 offered the best mids (Altec 902B's) by far. But using a first order low pass allowed the twin woofers to play out way too far IMO. 600 Hz ESN two way was awesome....mids may not have been slightly of less quality but the bass was cleaned up a bunch. Uh, let me see...ESN 3 way with the dbb's with the 511, 902, 2404...and the woof-mid XO'ed at 400hz.....that can't be any good[:$] jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Scott, another thing about the actives. Your probably running 24db slopes. Your able to snap across those crossover points and with horns is absolutely the way to go. Greatly reduces muddy sound affect imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted August 2, 2009 Author Share Posted August 2, 2009 I was thinking of using the Behringer DCX 2496 with 3 T- amps for testing. That sounds like a great idea, although I'd want something higher quality than the Behringer. I have a couple pieces of Behringer gear and they sound like crapola. I already have one DX-38 and that would be enough to feed the woofer and high end separately. The idea of using the same amps for for testing is a great idea, and the T-amps would keep the cost down. I've been thinking for a long time that the DX-38 would be a great way to voice and tune a crossover, I've just been waiting until the day when I can test my speakers to do it. I'm a "one step at a time" kind of person. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkalsi Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I just picked up an Ashly XR-2001 from CL on the cheap --> $180 -- excellent crossover for the money - can be had all day at that price on e-bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 jc, "Uh, let me see...ESN 3 way with the dbb's with the 511, 902, 2404...and the woof-mid XO'ed at 400hz.....that can't be any good" Yea buddy, it's just awful...[:'(] [] Glad you like the avatar. It's just like looking in the mirror[] tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Glad you like the avatar. It's just like looking in the mirror tc Is that a pretty old mirror? [*-)]Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 That sounds like a great idea, although I'd want something higher quality than the Behringer. I have a couple pieces of Behringer gear and they sound like crapola. Typically I would agree that Behringers do not sound that great, but I can not believe how good the DCX-2496 sounds with the output mod. I also have access to the Ashley 4001. Side by side comparison withe modded Behringer I can not hear an appreciable difference. The reason I thought the Beringer would be perfect for testing is that you can input and save as many different crossover configurations as you want into memory and recall them instantly. For instance I inputed the curves from the Klipsch AA, A, B, + ALK universal, and ALK Cornwall. I also experimented with higher slopes and a 4500 Hz crossover, and thought it sounded terrible. The other thing I like about the Behringer is the Link function, after your curves and gain levels are set, you can link the crossover points and adjust them simutaneously. For instance, I can link the MF and HF crossover points and adjust them from 6000hz to 4500hz just by turning a single knob and all the while listening to the changes. I am not saying the Behringer is the best active crossover out there, but I will say it is an incredible tool for tuning. The only issue I have with the Behringer is that it tends to pick up too much noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 BTW, I was sick of the XLR adapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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