Are Cornwalls appropriate as front L/R speakers for home theater use

[pval-guy]

I was hoping to solicit the opinion of some Klipsch users out there about the appropriateness of using Cornwalls as part of a 7.1 surround sound system.

I inherited a very nice pair of Cornwalls, and would like to use them as the front L/R speakers for a 7.1 surround sound system. I had a HDTV installed today, and the store representative who came to my house to advise me on the speakers that I still need to get (center, sub-woofer, ceiling mounted rear and side) took one look at the Cornwalls and said "no way". He felt that the speakers were too efficient and would not work well with any other speakers that I could purchase today. He said they were great as a pair of stereo speakers for listening to music, but would not work well together with other speakers. He recommended a pair of Mark Levinsons for about $2,200. I asked why he liked those so much and his response was because they were electrostatic.

This is difficult for me to understand. While I acknowledge that different speakers sound different and have their own characteristics, why couldn't speakers that are appropriate for music be just as appropriate for audio-visual as well? Different sound doesn't imply bad sound. And my receiver will allow me to manually set the volume on the different pairs, so it's not clear to me why efficiency should be an issue. Would anyone like to weigh in on this? I'd love advice. Frankly, I enjoy looking at the Cornwalls, which remind me of my departed friend, and would feel bad about not using them if there is no rational reason. So your advice/opinion/experience with speakers like these in surround sound systems would be greatly appreciated!

[psg]

Keep the Cornwalls, but look for a matching center speaker. Another Cornwall if you have the space, otherwise Heresy, otherwise Academy. You can get by with something different as surrounds, but you need to match the Cornwalls up front.

It will rock for HT!

[Zen Traveler]

Welcome to the Forum pval-guy. The guy at the store didn't know what he was talking about, although center channel placement could be tricky. Fwiw, I heard an all Cornwall HT in a 5.1 configuration and it sounded excellent. [Y]

[DTLongo]

"...I asked why he liked those so much and his response was because they were electrostatic." That was a pretty dumb reply by the installer. The Levinsons may be fine speakers but not necessarily just because they are electrostatic. Stick with the Cornwalls and take your sweet time. Run in straight-stereo they will already be a huge improvement over the small speakers in your TV. For the time being you could also run the TV speakers simultaneously from the TV's own amplifier as an ersatz center channel. You might have to look around for a center channel speaker to match the timbre of the Cornwalls but a Heresy may be a good fit if you can find a single one of those. Surrounds and rears are less critical. And of course in due time you will want/need a good subwoofer, or two.

[Rudy81]

Forgive me, but the 'store' guy is an idiot! The Cornwalls will be great for a HT setup. You will need to do what you can to try to timbre match the fronts for sure and the surrounds ideally. In a perfect word, you would have 5 Cornwalls. Second best, would be three Cornwalls up front and a pair of Heresey's for surrounds. I use 4 Cornwalls for my 7.1 surrounds, a pair Khorns as mains and a center La Scala.

I'm sure the "store" guy wanted to sell you the $2000 speakers. Also, focus your money and energy on acoustically treating your room if it can pass the WAF test. Money spent on acoustic treatments is much better than money spent on expensive speakers.

Best of luck.

[pval-guy]

Thank you for your rapid response. Unfortunately, another Cornwall is not an option as there is a table between the two speakers, and above the table is the HDTV. What do you think of the WC-24 center speakers which are still for sale? They contain a horn and two cone woofers? I'm not sure how else to "match" the Cornwalls.

[thefluffy]

Try a Heresy! You can find heresies for pretty cheap. If you can find a single Heresy, it will be even cheaper. The are probably the best timbre match in a small package for the older heritage speakers. If you really want to buy new, you could buy the Heresy III. However, the timbre will not match as well as an original Heresy. The Academy would be your second best timbre match in a small package. I doubt the WC-24 would match the Cornwalls very well at all. My Dad has an RC-7 he uses with LaScalas and previously with Cornwalls. It is a great center channel, but it is nowhere near a timbre match.

Daniel

[InVeNtOr]

invite the sales person over your house and slap him!

academy or hersey (1 - 2- 3) will work. the academy is more shaped like a "normal" center channel.

[colterphoto1]

[][*-)][8o|]

Efficiency is an issue because with other less efficient speakers in your mix, you'd have to TURN DOWN the Cornwalls, wasting precious amplifier power. Try to get speakers within 3 db efficiency of each other if you can. There is also the concept of sonic timbre in that different brands and lines of loudspeakers have their own distinct sound so you would not want to mix speaker types either. They key to matching timbre is that when sounds move around the sound space, the speakers do not call attention to themselves, the sound becomes seamless.

Cornwalls make EXCELLENT front L/R speakers, that's what I used for my first 5.1 rig. The trick is to get other matching Klipsch Heritage loudspeakers all the way around and you'll be in heaven man. The real beauty of Cornwall is that they are so full range that you could use them without sub at first, and when you get sub, you could still use them as LARGE speakers because they dig so deep.

Currently I have LaScalas in front and Cornwalls behind me with a KLF-C7 center. Plans call for a center Cornwall - vertical style one day. Heresy or Academy are also used with great success.

Welcome to the Madness!

Michael

[psg]

Is there room for a Cornwall laid horizontally above the TV? If so, find what is known as a vertical Cornwall.

[pval-guy]

I would like to collectively thank all of you who kindly and generously took your valuable time to write back to me and provide your counsel. I have found it tremendously helpful, and I now feel "validated" in wanting to keep these as part of a home surround sound set-up. I wish I had the space for another Cornwall in the center, but alas space is a tangible issue (i.e., there's a table below the television that my wife bought ...). Based on what everyone wrote I think the best solution for me is to purchase a single Academy speaker to use as a center channel and place it on the table directly below the television. I'm looking for one in black in case you know of any.

Thanks to this forum, I was also fortunate to correspond with Bob Crites, who is going to be able to help me restore my Cornwalls. The tweeters are dead, and Bob suggested that the crossovers, which are about 30 years old, be replaced as well. I must not be much of an audiophile, as I love these speakers even in their current condition; and I can't imagine spending almost $2,500 on Martin Logans to replace them. He also recommended four $500 ceiling-mounted speakers; again, I have to wonder if there is a better alternative, even in the modern Klipsch line.

Best wishes,

Phil

[wuzzzer]

Please don't use in-ceiling speakers unless you absolutely have to! They make re-arranging things in the room a nightmare and something tells me that if you're willing to run Cornwalls as front speakers you probably don't absolutely require surround speakers to be hidden away in the ceiling.

Fortunately surround speakers aren't as critical to match as is the center speaker to the front main speakers. In a 5.1 setup you'll have two side surround speakers that are usually mounted on the side walls slightly above and just behind the main listening position, firing towards your seating position. A 7.1 setup adds two rear surrounds behind you. Side surrounds are recommended to be wide dispersion type speakers such as ones in the Klipsch Reference RS series. Rear surrounds are recommended to be direct radiating type speakers such as ones in the Klipsch Reference RB series. Of course, those are general recommendations and many people such as myself use direct radiating speakers as side surrounds with very good results. If you have room for floorstanding speakers and want something with a smaller footprint the Klipsch KG series are excellent due to the fact that you can usually find speakers in the $150-300 range that are an incredible value for the money.

If you did want to have a better match to your Cornwalls, a pair or two of Klipsch Heresy speakers would be killer if you have the room. Expect to pay $250-500/pair depending on the wood color, age and condition. Obviously Cornwalls would work too but they're going to be a lot more expensive and take up a lot more room.

Please let us know what your limitations are (if any) as far as size of surround speakers and placement and we'll be happy to provide more recommendations. If you find surrounds you're interested in let us know what they are and the price and we can make sure you're not overpaying for anything.

[pval-guy]

Great reply - thank you very much! The constraints of the room are about as bad as they can get! The only wall that's solid is the one with the television, and the Cornwalls are next to that facing the interior. I can't fit the Heresy under the TV, but I can fit an Academy, so that seems like the best solution and from what people including Bob Crites tell me they will go very well with the Cornwalls. The left wall is fireplace and bookshelves, but there is no right wall - the room continues into the kitchen! And the back wall is a sliding glass door and window - with only 7.5 inches of wall between the top of the door/window and the ceiling. I suppose a flat-panel speaker mounted on its side that wasn't more than 7.5 inches wide could be mounted and face the interior (such as the Klipsch XL-12). But otherwise I don't see any alternative but to put four speakers mounted in the ceiling - not desirable, but better than nothing. There's no alternative for the side speakers because there's no wall space on the left and no wall on the right. The salesperson that came out to the house said the same thing, but his recommendation was to use Martin Logan Helos 100s for $500 apiece. Ouch.

Tragically, I also inherited a pair of LaScalas, but they're so large my wife doesn't want them in the room. Someday, when I add onto the house, they'll go in that room after I restore them.

I'd love to read any further thoughts you have; thank you so much for taking the time to write.

Phil

[wuzzzer]

Hang onto those LaScalas! If you get a room that will fit them, LaScala fronts with Cornwall surrounds would put you in pure audio bliss!

Would a smaller speaker on stands to the sides of your listening position pass the wife test? Or a small footprint floorstanding speaker like the KG series? I really don't see you being happy with in-ceiling surrounds. I guess I'm of the school of thought that I'd rather have a 3 channel setup with a center speaker and two front mains that match and will sound great together than a heavily compromised surround system.

[Arky]

I love these speakers even in their current condition

I think you will be amazed when Bob gets through.

[pval-guy]

Unfortunately, stands won't work in this room configuration, nor a floorstanding speaker. However, you've now really made me think about something somewhat different! While the side speakers (not sure which model would be best) would have to go in the ceiling, I could envision mounting XL-12 speakers on the rear wall near the ceiling (lower down won't work because of the sliding glass door and window), but angling them down somewhat using a swivel mount to compensate for their being so high. That would be instead of rear ceiling speakers. Your thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Phil

[InVeNtOr]

i think you over looked wuzzers last reply. not all typical home living rooms can accompanied 5.1 or 7.1 surround systems. they just aren't designed with that purpose. i just got done installing/ building a "surround" system for a friend (actually Stereo). his room would have been a nightmare for a 5.1 and almost impossible for 7.1. add in the the wife requests about size, position, location, it's just not worth the trouble. he would have ended up spending way more money than he wanted and to be honest, what he would have ended up with would have been "ok." i set up just a pair of RB-61's with a cheap'o dennon receiver and i was amazed how nice it sounded. since the surrounds would have been in weird/ bad angles he wouldn't have got much benefit out of them anyway. he was more than pleased with how it turned out.

if i were you, this is what i would do. i would take all the "Home Theater budget" you have and spend it on your cornwalls. talk with bob, he's awesome to talk to, upgraded those bad boys all the way, spare no expense. get different horns, tweeters, best woofer, he names it, you buy it. go nuts! have fun! then if you have money left over, get the academy. upgrade it if necessary, i would. better crossover parts, binding posts, what every makes you feel like a 5 year old boy with brand new Tonka Truck. after all that is done, quit. have the baddest 3.0 or even 3.1 set up and live happily ever after. since you have the cornwalls, upgraded at that, you really don't need a sub (Ear, don't take offense) so you can spend all the budget on the upgrades. when you have more money, ask about which sub to get, me personally i love my Elemental Designs A2-300.

anyways, to me that would be what i would do. take care, and enjoy the new sounds you will hear.

[wuzzzer]

I agree with everything InVeNtOR said. I'd rather have a speaker setup that I know will sound incredible than one that throws a few extra speakers into the mix just so I can say that I have a 5.1 or 7.1 theater.

If you are ever able to complete a home theater in a room that will allow you to use your LaScalas as front main speakers and Cornwalls as surrounds I guarantee you won't believe how awesome it will be. I truly, honestly think that you won't be happy with any kind of in-ceiling or back-wall mounted surrounds that are polar opposites to your Cornwalls. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for buying Klipsch speakers. But, I think at this point your money is better spent doing the things InVeNtOR suggested or saving it for when you can get a better suited room for your existing speakers.

[psg]

HT without a sub? Nah...

[Frzninvt]

** Edited by me for Content **

Remove the table from under the TV, use a Cornwall in the center spot as the TV stand and the La Scala's as L & R, or the other way with Cornwalls L & R and a La Scala. Source a pair of smaller Klipsch bookshelf's like the KG .5's or KG1's that can be mounted on pivotable mounts on a wall. A good subwoofer is absolutely imperative, an HT without a subwoofer is like a hand without a thumb it's not going to work.

Man I am glad my wife is move giving and understanding than most nags. I had 4 Klipschorn's, 2 Belle Klipsch, and a La Scala in my living room at one point but have scaled the system down since. She has traveled with me to source most of them as well.

If you are not going to use them with the proper accompanyment (i.e. other Heritage speakers) then you are better off using other speakers. A timbre matched Heritage is incredible and well worth the effort to pursue. Sounds you are going to be stuck with cutsie cubes and no subs in that household.

The system will only be as good as it's weakest link.