artarama Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Ok, this seems simple, but I want to be very clear on this before I do it! I want to hook my Luxman L-5 (60wpc) into a Marantz 2250B (50wpc) and come out with 110wpc with the Marantz connecting all the source inputs ie. turntable, tape, aux. etc., and attaching the speakers (four Forte II's as a main set and remote set in the same room) Both the Lux integrated amp and the Marantz receiver have "Main- In and Pre-out" RCA jacks. My plan is connecting the "Pre-out of the Luxman to the "Main-In" on the Marantz. Is this correct? Thanks, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 You can use the Luxman pre out going into the main in of the Marantz you will only have the 60wpc of the Marantz. Maybe you can use the preamp on one feeding the power amps on both (each amp driving a pair of fortes) and have the total wpc of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The Marantz will still only be putting out 50wpc. Its physically impossible to increase how many watts the Marantz will put out without going inside the receiver and replacing pretty much everything related to the amplifier section of it. I guess technically depending on how you wire up the four Fortes you could give the receiver a lower ohm load which will usually result in the receiver outputting more watts, but that's only if it was designed to handle a lower than 8 ohm load. Are you trying to hook up the Fortes in a surround-sound setting or are you trying to have more of a quad stereo arrangement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 My plan is connecting the "Pre-out of the Luxman to the "Main-In" on the Marantz. Is this correct? I could see where you might presume this is giving you an additional output and you could use your Luxman power amp as well as your Marantz power amp. If I'm reading between the lines here, you would need to put a splitter on the pre-out and put one leg of that back into the Luxman and the other leg of that into the Marantz, THEN you could use both amps with the same input source. I'm presuming you have jumpers at the Luxman preout/main in junction and not just a preout jack. I'm also presuming you want seperate amps on seperate speaker pair. I'm doing an awful lot of presuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artarama Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 This is just for music, no HT. I usually run the four speakers in a cross pattern where the same channel is diagonal across the room from the other set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artarama Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think you and Sargent are thinking of the same thing here. I do have jumpers on the Lux. One amp on each pair would probably be an improvement. This sounds now a lot like bi amping. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Both the Lux integrated amp and the Marantz receiver have "Main- In and Pre-out" RCA jacks. My plan is connecting the "Pre-out of the Luxman to the "Main-In" on the Marantz. Is this correct? Each of your units has a pre-amp (which amplifies the low power coming out of the signal source) and a power amp (which raises the pre-amp's power to a suitable level for the speakers to use). If your intention is to supply Speaker Out power from the Luxman to the Main In of the Marantz, don't do it! Main In connections are made to accept low-voltage power from a pre-amp, not more than that.The Pre-Out and Main-In connections use "line-level" current, probably less than three volts, not the output power of their respective power amps. Connecting them as you describe will use the pre-amp of the Luxman and the power amp of the Marantz, so the output of the speakers will be whatever the Marantz is putting out. There would not be an increase in power, but if the Luxman has a noticeably better-sounding pre-amp than the Marantz, there could be improved sound.To sum up, you can't "daisy-chain" power amps in the way you're hoping. You might be able to use the integrated amp to drive one pair of speakers and the receiver to drive the other pair, if you can send the signal from the source to both electronic units at the same time, but I've never heard of anyone doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I usually run the four speakers in a cross pattern where the same channel is diagonal across the room from the other set. That's a very unusual setup. What kind of soundstage does it present to the listener, as in can you tell where the individual instruments are located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artarama Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Thanks Islander and all, I understand. I really did want to "daisy chain" the amps but understand that is not quite that simple. I also have a couple other 120 plus wpc receivers that I have hooked up. A Kenwood Kr-1000b and a JVC A-X900. I can definately notice the difference in the speakers over the Marantz or Lux (mainly on the low's) but the overall quality of the sound is not as good as the Luz or Marantz. I was hoping to achieve the best of both worlds with what I had. Regarding the diagonal(Cross Channel) speaker set up, I like it. The sound stage seems to be more of a "surrond" I guess. The instrument separation is there. It seems fuller and more live. Speaker placement is critical but if all the angles and distances are right, it sounds as if the music is right in the back of your head and not from any one of the speakers when you look straight at them. When I do set them up with both sets left and both sets right if you will there is definately more discrete separation of channels but not as full IMO. I would definately like to here your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Regarding the diagonal(Cross Channel) speaker set up, I like it. Question... is it the surrounding of the sound (and perhaps the feeling of 'more' sound, more bass) along with more volume? When I was in college, I had my LaScalas and a pair of Electrovoice D's hooked to my Yamaha CR-2040. For the sake of volume and what I (affectionally) call a cacaphony of sound, it was very impressive. Something that worked nicely with that was the good mid bass punch of the LaScalas mated with the 28hz (-3db) of the EV's. I had the punch as well as the shake, rattle & roll!! Although today, I still have that same receiver, EV's and LaScalas (from 1980) I get better (and more if desired) sound out of a larger pair of speakers and the 1980 stuff is currently in the basement, unused. Just food for thought since I do not know what your priorities are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blvdre Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I wonder if, given your current idea, you could then connect the marantz pre out to the lux main in. That way you're not having to split, and subsequently load odwn your lux pre out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artarama Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Bigger than LaScalas! Wow! My goal and taste are toward the quality not the volume or an over abundance of bass. I rairly go above 8 or 9 o'clock with either the Lux or Marantz. That said, I can notice the depth and resonance of sound more when I have the Forte's hooked up to the Kenwood 125 wpc. When I turn up the smaller amps it gets louder but not better. What I want is that husky, smoky sound like FM with a deep voiced announcer and some dead air space but at a low volume. I do not like to use the loudness circuit, but that is like what I want. I think tubes may well do that but that is currently not an option. Ultimately maybe the tube pre-amp, SS main is where my tastes are, this has recently been discussed and sounds great. I guess what I am saying is that with what I have II get great sound at high volumes with all my equipment, better low's and resonance with more wpc, but I would like to have all of that at lower volume levels. Sorry if this is all being described poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artarama Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Blvdre, please elaborate a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Bigger than LaScalas! Wow! Yep.... and to think....there are people here who will pay you legal currency to not get me started..... [<)] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 This is just for music, no HT. I usually run the four speakers in a cross pattern where the same channel is diagonal across the room from the other set. Interesting.....odd, but I'm curious how you came up with this.I also run four speakers in a two-channel system just for music.....One day I was fiddling around and ended up hooking up my speakers wrong. I can't remember exactly how but the strange thing is that I do remember it sounding "fuller" and damn good. The only problem was that the left/right balance was thrown off. After hooking them up correctly I got my balance back but lost the "fullness" I had before. I've never heard of anyone running their speakers this way. Care to elaborate? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artarama Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 I would swear I read about it in some audio sales literature a very long time ago. Definately before "Quadraphonic" but about the same time. The concept seems reasonable to me. If you set directly in the center of the "square" created by the four speakers and if the speakers are "matched" in timbre and output then theoretically you shoud hear the sound from all four speakers at roughly the same time. That said, when you turn perpendicular to any of the four sides of the "listening area" you are getting a distinct left and right channel. The difference is behind you is the mirror image of this sound stage. The question then becomes does this mirror image offset or somehow neagate the front sound stage or add to it? I think in most situations it is an add. I must admit to being a relatively new owner of Klipsch speakers and can honestly say they have created a whole new level of enjoyment to all my music. Some show flaws like never before and others are unbelievable. I lived with nice equipment for many many years but now all bets are off. I have to reevaluate everything all over. What a joy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I'd suggest stacking your speakers and see how you like the sound. Bottom speaker sitting upright like normal, top speaker upside down. Then wire the speakers in series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artarama Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 I will do that! I don't think my Forte's will look as good as those KLF's (30's?) stacked, but it should sound good. Really, do you need that Sub?!? Honestly, That is over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 If you stay around this forum for a while, you'll see lots of stuff that's way over the top. People using La Scalas for surround speakers, for a minor example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Really, do you need that Sub?!? Honestly, That is over the topHeadroom, baby. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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