Soundstage depthhhhhhhhhh

[seagull]

Hi Guys,

wanted to say how happy I am with my recently aquired ex dem La Sala 2's

They really do do that people in the room thing. Love them to death, by comparison conventional speakers seem lame.

Although just wondered does anyone have any good tips on how to increase soundstage depth.

Which components do you reckon contribute to this illusion the most, or is it all in the mind.

[fwphoto]

Although just wondered does anyone have any good tips on how to increase soundstage depth.
Which components do you reckon contribute to this illusion the most, or is it all in the mind.

I found soundstage increased geometrically when I switched from SS to Tubes.

Frank W.

[PrestonTom]

Congratulations on your new speakers!

There are several variables that aid in giving a sense of depth. The most important one is that the necessary cues are in the original recording. So spend your money on good recordings. The second most important is the interaction of the speaker with the room. This one is difficult. For instance, with panel speakers, the speaker placement can be rather tricky. However, once this is done (assuming the room is not too out of whack) the sense of depth can be wonderful. Remember I did not say the apparent depth would be necessarily accurate.

So spend some time experimenting with different speaker and chair locations. This will also change the low frequency response, so it can take quite a bit of testing and listening.

Good luck,

-Tom

[Don Richard]

Systems that I have heard that had a real 3D quality have one thing in common - in every case the speakers were placed into the room, not pushed against the walls. You need to "hear around" the speakers in order to place the phantom image 'into" the room and create the illusion that the sound is coming from beyond the speakers. Otherwise the sound will appear to end near the boundaries (walls). Placement is critical and there will need to be experimentation for best results.

[boom3]

Besides seconding Don & Tom, I add that some have had interesting results with the Live End Dead End (LEDE) approach. I have heard both schools of thought-speakers at the dead end (absorbs early reflections, and the space behind the listeners is live for increased ambience) OR speakers at the live end (claims of increased 'air" around the speakers and the dead end eliminates troublesome echoes behind the listeners).

In the real world, not all of us can remodel our listening rooms to either approach, I certainly can't, so I just make do with what I have. My Corns are only 18 inches out from the corners (to tame the usual Corn tubbiness) and I hear plenty of depth even in strictly 2 channel mode. BTW the Corn tubby problem went away went I got a sub and used a 60 Hz crossover.

You might want to e-mail the guys who have built Heritage based home theatres from scratch and get their inputs.

[thebes]

Great googly moogly! I just remodeled my mainroom, paint the whole works (a horror for a housepainter) so I can finally get my cornwalls tucked snugly into the corners on a nice long 16 foot wall. So now you're saying they've got to come out into the room? Arrg.

Any suggestions for a starting point? Not trying to hijack, but this thread is pertinent since I'm still getting things dialed in and the bottom end could be tighter but the depth seem ok.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Depth and imaging has to do with eliminating reflections and cabinet interferences such as baffle effects.

The attached is very informative. I have found that high end speakers such as B&W 800 Series, Wilson, etc (I'm sure the Palladiums qualify too) are easier to place in a room than ones with less emphasis on eliminating cabinet interferences. They are much more forgiving of compromises.

Case and point. I sold my B&W Signature 800's and was going to use an old pair of B&W's to get me by. I put them in the same spot and played around with positioning and they just could not do it. The image very well, but there was a big difference in how much instruments separate, soundstage depth, precision, etc.

I.e. they had much more smear. I had the very same speakers temporarily in a very large room that was waiting to be decorated well away from the walls and they did not suffer from any of these problems. But when called upon to be in a compromised position they fell so short of the 800 series.

I bought another pair of speakers the next day (I did get lucky and stumble across them locally). Coaxial design and finely tuned cabinet (TAD design). Immediately back to the imaging and depth that I was used to in the compromised position. The real key will be to get them in a dedicated room way away from the walls, and use thick carpeting and heavy curtains.

WASP.pdf

[russ69]

I have not heard any horn loudspeaker that excelled in image depth. Granted I have limited experience with horns but it's hard to beat mini monitors on stands or large line arrays or panels for superb imaging. At least in my experience.

Thanx, Russ

[boom3]

Great googly moogly! I just remodeled my mainroom, paint the whole works (a horror for a housepainter) so I can finally get my cornwalls tucked snugly into the corners on a nice long 16 foot wall. So now you're saying they've got to come out into the room? Arrg.

Any suggestions for a starting point? Not trying to hijack, but this thread is pertinent since I'm still getting things dialed in and the bottom end could be tighter but the depth seem ok.

Hey Thebes,

The front Corns in our HT set-up are pretty much locked into position just out from the corners, since we have to pass cables to the equipment rack around one, and our chubby selves around the other to get access to the back alley behind our wall units, 50 inch DLP monitor, sub, etc. We built a Rhythmik Audio 12 sub a couple of years back and set the crossover at 60 Hz. Before that, we had started with the Corns in tight against the corners but the midbass tubbiness was really apparent. Moving them 18 inches out helped tame that, and when we put the sub in the chain and relieved the Corns of responsibility below 60 Hz, the tubbiness vanished.

The point is if you have a sub that can take the last two octaves off the Corns (etc) you need not worry about placement versus bass response. We now can play with the toe-in of the front Corns to improve the overall system focus.

This is probably screamingly obvious, but "imaging" is highly dependent on the recording technique and is not a major factor compared with distortion and a reasonable degree of "flatness" in the amplitude response. I have a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10s in my study and yes, they image beautifully, but they are not in the same league as the Corns for overall realism.

[Groomlakearea51]

A center channel (or center array) can also do alot for the depth (and width).