Klipschorn Refinishing

[Jareb]

I got a pair of 1960 Klipschorns about 5 years ago from a thrift shop. They were originally a raw birch finish. When I got them, they had oak grained Formica over them. I have been playing these for the past 5 years and recently decided to upgrade the crossovers, refinish the cabinets and new grill cloth. I removed the oak formica today and found blotches of black paint and of course formica adhesive. It looks as though the previous owner bought the speakers in raw birch, then decided to paint them black, then changed his mind and had them sanded and covered in the formica. I sanded a small area and the birch will come back nicely although removing the previous deep sanding marks will take some work. I've though about just sanding these and painting them black. To refinish them natural birch would require the most work to get the surface smooth and free of sanding marks. Also thought about wood veneer...expensive and I dont have the tools to do it myself {router etc.} Does anyone have any pictures of refinish work they have done so I can get and idea of the final look. Any suggestions from people who have done this before?

Thanks

John

[Jareb]

Another Picture

[DoubleJ]

It appears that Greg has changed his website but here is a link to his new site

http://voltiaudio.com/

Very well documented refurbs showing Greg's excellent work.

JJ

[greg928gts]

It appears that Greg has changed his website but here is a link to his new site

http://voltiaudio.com/

Very well documented refurbs showing Greg's excellent work.

JJ

In the process of building a new site, so there is only one photo-essay page up for Khorn restoration, but it's a pretty detailed one.

www.voltiaudio.com/flkhorn.shtml

Greg

[Groomlakearea51]

Greg is the Grand Master on the restoration.

I had the same problem with a pair of Cornwalls, but re-veneered them anyways. You should know that as likely as not, you'll never get alot of the paint out of the grain. You will end up sanding through the top layer of the birch veneer which is only about 0.020" thick.

Couple of options; first is re-veneer and learn how to do it by experimenting with the bottom piece of one of the top sections. Won't hurt and you'll get the hang of it. Other option is to go the black lacquer route and.... it will also set up the surface for veneer later when you get the time, funds, etc.

Look at these two threads; first deals with the issues involved with the formica problem; second deals with a pair of K-horns that were far worse than what you have.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/117315.aspx

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/109618.aspx

[halfstep999]

I just refinished mine with black poly shade, 3 coats followed with 3 coats of clear poly. They look amazing. They were painted white white and i used a paint stripper. I will post pics tomorrow and send them to you.

[Edroom]

I just picked up my first pair of Klipschorns and they are in need of a new finish, I decided to go the veneer route. There is a lot of info available on line about how to do it, There is some very reasonibly priced 4 x 8 sheets of veneer available on the internet, I bought from www.oakwoodveneer.com after a few searches (no affiliation)They got sanded last night here is a pic....

[Edroom]

I will post pics when the veneer is done, hopefully they will be amazing!

Ed

[Jareb]

Thanks for all the info.....I will have to decide whether to paint them black lacquer or maybe go with wood veneer. They are Fir, BTW and not Birch as I had originally thought.

John

[greg928gts]

Thanks for all the info.....I will have to decide whether to paint them black lacquer or maybe go with wood veneer. They are Fir, BTW and not Birch as I had originally thought.

John

Just a heads-up.

I have noted that fir tends to sand unevenly sometimes. There are bands of heavy and harder grain running through it sometimes, and when you're sanding, you'll sand away more material on either side of the these heavy grain lines, and less material off the heavy grain lines. Makes for a bit more difficulty veneering, and very difficult to paint. Be careful.

Greg

[michael hurd]

Just a heads-up.

I have noted that fir tends to sand unevenly sometimes. There are bands of heavy and harder grain running through it sometimes, and when you're sanding, you'll sand away more material on either side of the these heavy grain lines, and less material off the heavy grain lines. Makes for a bit more difficulty veneering, and very difficult to paint. Be careful.

Greg

I wonder if setting up the bass bins perfectly level and applying a coat of self levelling epoxy as well as the top of the top hats could aleviate that. Veneer over the perfectly level epoxy after curing.

http://www.epoxyproducts.com/bartop.html

[Groomlakearea51]

What Mike Hurd recommends was what I had to do with one pair of Khorn bins I restored. The top layer of birch veneer was peeling off and after stripping the rest, sanding, etc., there was no way to really make it "flat" (other than glueing a piece of luan to the front). I simply flooded the surface with marine grade epoxy-resin and it left the perfectly flat surface I needed for that project.

[ZombieWoof]

Yah could just rewrap them in 1/4" MDF & then veneer... less hassle !

AND U get more stiffness which is a GooD Thing what the heck use 3/4" MDF and WaLa a Khorn tank !

you could call them your K-Tankhorn's

[crd97086]

Putting down a layer of thin(1/4") MDF or patching with a high quality wood supplement as Greg suggests and then following his excellent instructions in reveneering. He documents his experiences so well, it is just so honest, how can you go wrong. Unless, you have him do it for you, As he is buidling my heavily modified LaScalas.

[WMcD]

I'll give my two cents worth. Not that I've tackled a project like that.

The problem with fir or pine is that the dark areas tend to be relatively hard and are the sort of pattern which is attractive. But it is relatively non-absorbant. The light areas are soft and very absorbant. The problem is that the soft/hard issue makes getting a flat surface by sanding difficult. Also, if you apply stain to fir without treatment, the large areas absorb the stain, making them as dark as the original dark areas. As a result, staining fir without treatment gets you sort of dark on dark.

From what I read, the solution is to apply shellac to the sanded fir. It seals off and toughens the light areas. Then with some light sanding, you get a smooth surface and the absortion of the stain is controlled.

Now I know you're not going to stain the fir. Yet I think you might be able to get a smooth surface with some applications of shellac and light sanding. BTW, stuff like Bullseye sanding sealer is essentially shellac.

There is another issue in any case. It is related to whatever you are going to use to glue the veneer to the smooth surface you achieve by some means.

If you use old fashion,smelly contact cement, it will probably stick to anything.

There are some peel and stick veneers out there and maybe they too will stick to just about anything which is clean and dust free.

OTOH, a popular alternative is something like Joe Woodworker Heat-Lock. This is essentially yellow glue. As you may know, it is applied to both the veneer and the base material. Then you apply a clothes iron to heat the sandwich from the outside and it melts the glue. So it is somewhat similar the theory of a hot glue gun. Or making a grilled cheese sandwich where the molten cheese melts into the pores of the bread even though heated from the outside.

Heat-Lock might not stick to an epoxy paint. I don't know. I think (think) it will stick to shellac. In fact the shellac might well melt at about the same temperature.

You should investigate these issues.

Wm McD

[Wunsung]

Hi John,

I have been in the process of restoring my 1980 Belle's and was faced with a similiar situation, as the top of one speaker had a huge, black, water stain on it. At first I tried sanding, but the stain was too deep, and I did not want to remove more wood than was necessary. Next, I tried bleaching the stain out but, that too, proved to be futile. In the end I just ordered some walnut veneer from Rockler and completely recovered the top. Actually, I ended up doing both tops so they would match.

I used pressure sensitive veneer, and it went on like a dream. Simply cut slightly larger than the surface needing to be covered, orient the grain in the direction you want it, peel and stick. As long as the surface is clean and smooth you should have no problems. Trim the excess, stain (if so desired), and finish. It's that simple.

At first, I had some reservations about using pressure sensitive veneer, mainly about how good it would actually adhere, but my fears were quickly put to rest after doing the first top. The bond is tight and lasting, and seems just as good as any paper backed veneer with glue I have ever used. Best of all, no mess. It takes stain, finish, and oil, as good as any veneer I've used, too.

Anyway, there are many options and methods available to you, as some have already expressed. I just thought I'd share my own personal experience.

Regards,

Marty

[jerryd]

They have that peel and stick veneer at home depot. was pretty pricey stuff if I remember. If you have to do whole speaker you are talking 300 or so with that stuff. I would use door skin veneers. they are very affordable. but you would glue and router skills.

[mark1101]

Although this has nothing to do with refinishing the surface I would highly recommend considering closing the backs off to improve the bass response. If you have a pair that rough like in the pcitures shown and are going to refinish.........what the heck...........consider enclosing the backs.

I had always seen pictures of Khorns that had the backs enclosed on this forum over the years and I finally heard a pair this year and was blown away. A VERY substantial improvement. I never heard Khorns sound so good. They blew mine away and I had perfect corners and some hopped up networks.

Just something to consider.

[greg928gts]

Although this has nothing to do with refinishing the surface I would highly recommend considering closing the backs off to improve the bass response. If you have a pair that rough like in the pcitures shown and are going to refinish.........what the heck...........consider enclosing the backs.

I had always seen pictures of Khorns that had the backs enclosed on this forum over the years and I finally heard a pair this year and was blown away. A VERY substantial improvement. I never heard Khorns sound so good. They blew mine away and I had perfect corners and some hopped up networks.

Just something to consider.

I agree. Enclosing the backs improves the quality of the bass and also makes it possible to turn the bass horns within the corner slightly and still maintain decent corner loading.

What are your thoughts on enclosing the backs by inserting pieces of wood between the top and bottom, versus applying pieces on the outside of the bass horn? I've been asked about this many times, and I tell people that I'm not comfortable with the idea of reducing the horn size by 3/4" from top to bottom, which is what would be done if the 3/4" plywood pieces are installed inside the bass horn.

The difficulty with applying the plywood outside of the bass horn is that it pulls the whole cabinet away from the walls 3/4", which leaves a gap between the top sections and the walls.

It's a conundrum.

Greg