La Scala V's Klipschorn

[sootshe]

Hi all,

Most of you will know that I've recently completed a LS build & added the bass reflex cabinet to the bottom of the bass horn. (along with many other mods).

This is producing some of the most musical sound that I have ever had in my room & I'm more than happy with it.

I'm just curious on the thoughts of others as to the difference in sound quality between this set up & the Klipschorn, primarily the difference in the sound of the bottom end. So if the mids, tops, & crossovers were left the same & I changed out the bass cabs, what sort of difference would I hear?

I haven't heard a set of corner horns for about 20 years, so it's very difficult to compare, but my recollection is that the LS bass was tighter & cleaner, whereas the KHorn bass was rounder & fuller but with not as much slam.

Appreciate any thoughts,

John

[DizRotus]

They look fantastic. If they sound as good as they look, you must be pleased, as well as justifiably proud.

As to comparing the soiund of La Scala to Klipschorns, that's very subjective. The difference in bass that you describe might better describe the difference between stock La Scalas and stock Cornwalls. Stock Khorns go lower and probably sound fulller to most ears than stock La Scalas. Each has tight horn-loaded bass.

With your speakers, all bets are off. They could very easily sound better, to most people, than stock La Scalas or stock Khorns. The modifications to the bass, midrange and tweeter sections, compared to stock La Scalas,would make it difficult to compare.

I've owned Khorns, La Scalas, Cornwalls and Hereseys. The Khorns and Corwalls were stock. The Hereseys had Crites tweeters and the La Scalas had the bass reflex mod. In my opinion, the Khorn, given the right room, will produce the best overall sound. You can't cheat the laws of physics.

The other heritage speakers are more tolerant of lesss than ideal rooms. They can all be made to sound great, but there will always be compromises.

The fundamental truth is that "better" is in the ear of the beholder.

Don't sound waves cycle differently south of the equator? I'm probably thinking of something else.

[sootshe]

So you've had the bass reflex mod on your LS. Do you think the bass was better on those than a Khorn? I'm thinking the mids & tops will be the same on both speakers...after all they both use exactly the same components & crossovers.

[Rudy81]

Well, I have to chime in here. I have a center LaS with the bass reflex mod, the ALK universal, the Crites CT-125 tweeter and a similar setup (before I went active) in my Khorns. Both Khorns and LaS have the very same drivers to include the mid JBL 2470.

The comparison in my room isn't even close. The bass from the Khorn is much more enveloping and powerful than anything the LaS can produce. I will say it is a 'different' kind of bass. The LaS bass fires right at you and is tight. However, the Khorns 'own' the room when it comes to bass. As a matter of fact, they produce too much bass and I am currently EQ' ing a reduction in the famed Khorn hump.

I am now actively filtering the Khorns and use a Crown K1 to power the woofers. WOW, the bass is tight, authoritative and clean....much more so than when I was passively filtering with the ALK crossovers and powering the entire Khorn with a Parasound A23.

In all the options and things I have done to my room, I have never though of going back to three LaS in front. I once had three LaS in front and although they were great, the Khorns are a step up. At least in my opinion. I'm sure some will disagree with me. The Khorn bass is not as direct as the LaS or a Belle....it is different. But when played at reference levels, the Khorns produce a room enveloping powerful sound.

Just my thoughts on the subject. I will say, it took me a long time to get the bass bins properly sealed in order to get to that level of performance. If you don't have good corners (false or otherwise), you will think the Khorn doesn't have bass.

[Rudy81]

I still can't get over how beautiful your Trachorn's finish ended up. Just a top notch job! BTW, after seeing what you did, I went after the LaS bass bin mod so it could keep up with my Khorns a little better. I watch movies quite a bit and have worked hard on getting as close a timbre match as I could get short of a third Khorn in the middle. That would be great, but would be a major problem with my screen.

[DizRotus]

I agree with Rudy. Other things being equal (including a space large enough for Khorns), the Khorns should beat the La Scalas regarding bass, even with the bass reflex mod. That said, with a space not suited to Khorns, the modded La Scalas would probably do a better job. In any case, don't worry about a hypothetical Khorn, just enjoy your really excellent speakers.

[Rudy81]

In any case, don't worry about a hyptohetical Khorn, just enjoy your really excellent speakers.

Exactly!

[sootshe]

Thanks guys,

Pretty much as I thought....I really like that direct bass sound that comes straight to you....it's one of the reasons I went for the LS over the KHorn in the first place.

Rudy, your comparison would be very valid, as you have both & your comments are pretty much what I would expect for the sound.

How come we are never satisfied & feel the need to always look for the holy grail......as always, it's a personal preference thing.

I'm very satisfied with this setup after all the mods....I never thought I could get a set of LS to sound like this!!

[Don Richard]

That is a great looking speaker - good work!

To me, the Lascalas have a better midbass than than a stock Khorn. The reflex ports should allow the LS to go lower, which is one of the few weaknesses the stock LS has.

[Marvel]

To me, the Lascalas have a better midbass than than a stock Khorn. The reflex ports should allow the LS to go lower, which is one of the few weaknesses the stock LS has.

Approx. 30Hz, slightly less efficient overall with the porting.

[Rudy81]

John, I'm glad you posted pictures of your La Scalas again. I have always wondered how the tweeters would sound if I removed them from the side of the top hat since the Trachorns require a side by side setup with the tweeters. I did just that yesterday, and finished setting the tweeters on top tonight. Threw some Boston in to evaluate the highs.

My tweeters came to life out from behind the speaker fabric. I had to attenuate the tweeters a bit....they were now too hot. I had no idea the speaker fabric 'ate' high frequencies like that.

Thanks for the idea.

[Tarheel]

Man....you do nice work sootshe! Did you have plans for the bass reflex cabinet or just experiment?

[garyrc]

• The old La Scalas of the '70s always tended to sound harsher than Klipschorns to me. and lacked the lowest bass. As to "punch," there are different kinds of punch IMO. The Cornwall may have the most punch in the upper bass and the middle bass, and the Klipschorn in the lower bass ???? The Cornwall rocks out in that range when cranked up, perhaps the most of any Klipsch speaker, but I haven't heard anything to beat the Klipschorns on the tympani/bass drums on Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man (Crystal Clear records' Sonic Seasonings)
• The LaScala and the Belle supposedly sound very similar. My Belle center channel is not harsh, but may lack a little high treble. A dealer told me that Klipsch "toned down" the Belle shortly after it's introduction.
• The new La Scala IIs sound great according to Stereophile, except that they are "reticent" in the high treble..... still earned a class A

[sootshe]

Man....you do nice work sootshe!  Did you have plans for the bass reflex cabinet or just experiment?

Thanks for the comments....The design dimensions I got from here on the forum. Basically they are the same depth & width as the LS & 10 inches high. I made mine 10 inches internal dimension high to allow for the extra volume of the bracing. The ports are 7 inches long & 4 inches in diameter

[sootshe]

John, I'm glad you posted pictures of your La Scalas again.  I have always wondered how the tweeters would sound if I removed them from the side of the top hat since the Trachorns require a side by side setup with the tweeters.  I did just that yesterday, and finished setting the tweeters on top tonight.  Threw some Boston in to evaluate the highs. 

My tweeters came to life out from behind the speaker fabric.  I had to attenuate the tweeters a bit....they were now too hot.  I had no idea the speaker fabric 'ate' high frequencies like that. 

Thanks for the idea.

Rudy,

Yes, it makes quite a difference & is one of the reasons I wanted the mid horn to not be covered (I prefer to be able to see it as well), although I don't think the difference would be as noticeable as with the tweeter.

[sootshe]

• The old La Scalas of the '70s always tended to sound harsher than Klipschorns to me. and lacked the lowest bass.  As to "punch," there are different kinds of punch IMO.  The Cornwall may have the most punch in the upper bass and the middle bass, and the Klipschorn in the lower bass ????  The Cornwall rocks out in that range when cranked up, perhaps the most of any Klipsch speaker, but I haven't heard anything to beat the Klipschorns on the tympani/bass drums on Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man (Crystal Clear records' Sonic Seasonings)
• The LaScala and the Belle supposedly sound very similar.  My  Belle center channel is not harsh, but may lack a little high treble.  A dealer told me that Klipsch "toned down" the Belle shortly after it's introduction. 
• The new La Scala IIs sound great according to Stereophile, except that they are "reticent" in the high treble..... still earned a class A

Garyrc,

Thanks for the comments & as usual we all have a different opinion on what "punch" is. I'd never really thought of it that way before, so thanks.

[Rudy81]

I would love to have the mid range horn also 'naked', but mine don't look anything like yours. I would have to try and clean them up as you did. I surmize the difference in mid horn performance would not be as dramatic as was taking the tweeter from behind the cloth.

I'm really glad I did this. Doesn't look too bad either.