First Impression of my new (used) Heresy IIs

[JoshT]

Last night I managed to hook up the speakers I bought from Doug on Sunday (see his thread below).

Summary: I love these speakers. At the same time, I appreciate what Klipsch has done with newer models since designing these. Everyone should have more than one pair of Klipsch speakers from different stages of Klipsch history!

I hooked them up to my HT system in place of the KLF20s. I would characterize this system as decent, entry-level high-end solid state: Sherwood Newcastle pre/pro; Rotel 5x100 power amp; Sony S7700 DVD/CD player; Rega Planar 3 with Grado Silver cartridge and creek phono stage.

I first put in the CD soundtrack to the movie "O Brother Whereart Thou?" to make sure everything was hooked up properly, and was IMMEDIATELY captivated by the clear, open, detailed and MUSICAL sound of these speakers. I later listened to (1) some Bossa Nova stuff by Stan Getz on CD, (2) John Coltrane "Favorite Things" on CD, (3) Morphine "Cure for Pain" on CD, (4) Galactika on CD (great funk/jazz combo with lots of drum, bass guitar, Hammond organ and vocals), and (5) some early Dexy's Midnight Runners on LP (sort of garage band rock and roll). I'd still be at home listening if I didn't have to WORK FOR A LIVING (how unfair)!

Here were my PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS of what I would hear in comparison to the KLF20s: (1) the bass would be faster and tighter, but very thin; (2) they would sound dynamic but more boxy; (3) they would sound more forward and bright, and would not be a good fit with SS gear; and (4) the horn sound would be somewhat more pronounced on vocals.

Here is what I ACTUALLY heard in comparison to the KLF20s: (1) the bass was indeed faster and tighter, but was not thin at all; in fact, the bass seemed fuller down to the roll-off point (though they certainly do not go as deep as the KLF20s); (2) they were at least as dynamic as the KLF20s, but not particularly boxy sounding at all; (3) they were in fact warmer and softer sounding than the KLF20s in the midrange, and with even more resolution if that is possible, but with less resolution from the tweeters; and (4) my only real criticism, but real nonetheless, is that the vocals did indeed sound somewhat unreal and "horny" -- more so that I'd expected.

I find the Heresy IIs to be a wonderfully fun speaker, with dynamic, clean, detailed and MUSICAL sound. Perhaps not a good fit with cheap ss gear, but a very nice match with good quality ss gear.

I now must ask you all whether tubes are a good idea with these speakers, because they sould so good, and the bass quite full and strong, with quality ss. I am thinking maybe the NAD C340 integrated would be a good match for a stereo only system. But I am tempted to get a Cary or CJ integrated amp if I can find a decent used deal. Anyone want to sell me one from the trunk of his car?

So, where does this leave my KLF20s in my eyes? Overall, I'll rate them higher than the Heresys even for music alone because they reproduce vocals SO much more naturally. Of course some of this could be positioning. Also, for HT, the KLF20s are just designed better as front mains because of their deeper bass and the height of the tweets and mid-horns.

I now feel very fortunate to be a member of the Heritage family. Ever since I was in highschool in the early 1980s I have pined for a pair of Heresys. The fit and finish is excellent and the sound is so immediate and engaging and clean and musical. But I will not leave the Legend family either, because most of the Heritage qualities are preserved, and the tratrix horns do a better job on vocals (at least a better job than the Heresy IIs in my living room on my system). But I have to admit, I would love to hear Cornwalls more than ever now!

Your feedback are suggestions are appreciated, especially regarding optimum amplification source.

Please bear in mind that all of the foregoing is my opinion based on a very preliminary listen, so please don't release the attack dogs if you disagree.

[rowooo]

Great read Josh, sounds like you got the best of both worlds there.

[J M O N]

I recently took my Heresy I's to a party. They were being powered by a cheap (very very cheap) receiver that someone else brought along with a portable CD player. The folks at the party wanted to dance, so they played dance music, and they played it loud. While the little Heresy's didn't go real deep in the bass, the bass was definitely there. This was in a very large room (approx 30' x 40' with 15' ceilings). These speakers can be deceiving because of their size as well as their looks (the cabinets on mine aren't in the best of condition). "Those are some POWERFUL speakers" was a comment that someone said to me (not knowing they were my speakers, I just happened to be next to him).

The Heresy will benefit from better amplification. Tubes are good, but if you start spending too much money on amplification, it might be wiser to put some of that money into a Cornwall or another Heritage speaker. When I sold my Classe Seventy amp a while back, I used the Heresy's to demo the amp. During the listening session, the guy mentioned to me that it was too bad I wasn't selling the Heresy's too (he owned B&W). He bought the amp, but I kept the Heresy's.

[DVois]

Great thread Josh. I am glad you are enjoying the Heresy's. Did you see the feedback on my thread about NewEngland HiFi, man what a snowball effect.

If for some "STUPID" reason I ever decide to unload my Cornwalls i'll let you know.

Doug

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Current System

Cornwalls 1 (LF/RF)

Hersey II's (LR/RR) Sold

RC-7 (Center)

KSW-12 (Sub)

Adcom GTP500

Yamaha DSP-A1

H/K DVD-50

(Future Expansion)

LaScala's (any day)

AVR 8000

[dbflash]

Josh,

Glad you like the Heresy's. I love mine.

I have been going through the tube issue. i bought a AES-AE3 pre amp which i connected to a Parasound SS amp. Sounded awesome. I couldn't believe how good my system sounded.

I then bought a pair of the Waves8. I was so let down, but after a week they are starting to sound better or I'm getting use to them. I put on Art Pepper saturday and it sure sounded good.

I would go with tubes.

I have a pair of KLF20's in storage. I just signed on a house today. The only thing I really remember about it is that it has a huge den for my stereo and a huge fenced in backyard for my dog. I can finally hook up the KLF20's and compare them to the Heresy's. I will let you know.

Again enjoy your speakers.

Danny

[NOSValves]

JoshT

Well I can't say for sure about heresy IIs. But my 1985 Heresy I's I bought from Jobman sound absolutely awesome on my Vintage HH SCott PP amps. I have 2 of them. I was using them in my HT room with current Klipsch Synergy Speakers and I thought those sounded great and they did !! But the Heresy's are just awesome. I don't even fire up SF-2's for music anymore which is a shame.

Don't hesitate to go the TUBE route new or Vintage.

Craig

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HH Scott Tube FM Tuner LT-110B

HH Scott Tube Amp 222C

HH Scott Turn Table P-87

Sony DE-975 AV Receiver

Sony NS-900P DVD

Sony CD 5 DISC C315

Syenrgy SF-2 mains

KSC-C1 Center Channel

KSW-15 Sub

SS-1 Surrounds

Promedia 5.1 for the PC

[maxg]

Welcome to the Heresy 2 owners club, glad you like them.

Interesting to read you points and particularly the fact that you prefer the sound of the KLF 20 trantix horn. This is the reverse of my experience (albeit with KLF 30's rather than 20's) so my guess is that amplification will make a big difference.

Basically there are 2 easy routes. Either go for a tube amp or a tube pre-amp - both will make a big difference but the pre probably more so.

The good news is that there are variety of very reasonable tube goodies out there, even new. One item you might want to look for is a Bottlehead Foreplay pre-amp. Whilst not the last word in Tube pre sophistication it will really give you a good idea of the sound you can achieve at incredibly little money (like around $100 new from memory).

you might also want to take a look at these monoblock tube amps. At $99 they are a steal!

http://www.divertech.com/wave.html

These should make a dramatic difference to the way you perceive the Heresy's.

Of course there are many better products then these out there but for a toe in the water approach to tubes this is silly money!!

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2 * Heresy 2 (mains)

2 * Homemade horn speakers (rears)

1 * REL Strata 3 sub

Accuphase E211 amp.

Tube monoblocks with separate pre-amp (DECWARE ZTPRE with separate beefed up PSU)

Marantz CD6000 player

Sony NS900 SACD/DVD player

Stax Headphones (on loan to a friend)

Humax 5400 digital satellite receiver

Sharp Video

32" Sony flat screen 16:9 TV

Mogami interconnects

Silver Synergistic speaker cable

[mobile homeless]

There is no question in my mind that you should opt for tubes for the vintage Klipsch speakers. After trying about the best reasonably priced solid state I could get my hands on which happened to be a Class A, Zero Global feedback, 25wpc Monarchy amplifier, I am even further under the impression that to get the ultimate sonics from these vintage (or modern for that matter) Klipsch, tubes are the pair that brings out the midrange magic and detail, while keeping the harmonic richness and essence of the music intact. Great Class A, simple, no feedback solid state comes closer, but still does not leave the music unmolested as there is still that slight bleaching of the notes and an absence of inner detail that comes with a good valve amp.

All tube amps are not created equal, however. Still, to get the most from your Heresy, the valve is surely the way to go. Most that head down that road with the right gear never look back.

kh

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Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point

CD Player Rega Planet

Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified

Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks

Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect

Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover

system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s>

[maxg]

Hi Mobile,

Thought twice about posting on tubes knowing you are here with so much more info than I have but I noticed you aint been on so much lately.

Take a look at my post on comparing vinyl sacd and cd's if you get the chance - might be interesting to you!!

Cheers

[mobile homeless]

Yes, maxg... I just read that post and was shocked a bit! I was wondering what was going on over there and thought for a minute you might have succumbed to some terrorist activity involving brainwashing! Heh...

Sounds like you have been doing a lot of listening and having a fine time from it, something I have been doing more of lately as the posting thing got me way behind on stuff I needed to get done. The music keeps on regardless, however.

Glad you are having good experience with your new vinyl rig. While not as consistant as digital, it can bring your far more magic when running on all cylinders.

kh

[maxg]

A fine time indeed, and yes, I understand what you mean by vinyl sounding incredible when firing on all cylinders.

From my limited selection a few standouts have been:

1. Phil Collins (I have 4 of his albums - hardly a hiss or a crack to be heard - and breathtaking in all music departments).

2. Eurythmics.

3. UB40.

4. Dire Straits

Sadly the classical versions I have all seem to be acompanied by much more background noise which at times threatens to overpower the quieter moments in the music. This is even for the more expensive discs I picked up (180 gram). On the other hand it does help to justify the semi ridiculous amounts I have spent on SACD classical with their zero noise floor.

To date I do not own any jazz on vinyl (I will remedy that next weekend) but certainly Rock, Blues, Reggae and soul all come across wonderfully with much more impact than SACD. Vocals are a bit more hit and miss (or should that be hiss).

At some point I will put all my "discoveries" together and post them here but right now I am simply dleighted with the combination of sources I have.

The biggest advantages of vinyl over SACD though....availability and price. I had no idea there were so many local stockists of vinyl. It is a pity I dont like Greek music much - every Greek Sony ever released is here on vinyl - it is an even better selection than on CD.

[mobile homeless]

Quite simply, jazz on vinyl is second to none and SO much better than the digital reproduction it is almost a no brainer that if you are into jazz (I know you are just starting here), a turntable is almost manditory to get the amazing selection, sound, and source.

Jazz on CD remains unimpressive except for some of the better versions such as the K2 20-bit and other various companies. Even many of the Japanese XRCD sounded sterile and tipped up. While jazz on CD mimics the sound it does not capture the music.

Once again, some jazz vinyl is better than others. The personally feel that Jazz was at its peak from the late 40s through the mid 60s. Actually, there have been a lot of reissues of this material and all very inexpensive, relatively speaking.

kh

system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s>

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-21-2002 at 09:32 AM

[Vahorns]

Josh---

Great post.

I too have discovered the "magic" of Klipsch Heritage speakers, but I have to admit it's more a re-discovery.

Being part of the "older" generation who finished college almost 30 years ago, I spent lots of time and money during those early-mid '70s years, pursuing the best sound for $$$ spent. I built Dynacos and later Haflers, modified them, still have them! I had an electrical engineer student buddy who designed and built hybrid tube-solid state pre-amps and amps.

I listened closely/intently to Klipschorns, Fulton electro-static speakers, Magneplanars, Magnepans, Ohm F's, Infinity Betas, even Dalquists DQ-10s(sp?)and hybird high-end horn-based Cerwin Vega speakers, heavy satellites coupled with large cube subwoofers (15" -18" speakers with 40-50 lb. magnets, in a large, heavy, all wood cabinet).

After many years of being away from the audio hobby, I have returned, by purchasing a pair of Cornwalls, and am now closing a deal on a second pair!

I do recall several technical papers published by Klipsch in the late '80s - early '90s, describing the performance characteristics of exponential horns versus the development of the triaxial horn (which deals with the "bumps" in the expon.horns' response curve), now used in the Legends line.

I still have a preference for the dynamics and impact of music delivered by the Heritage line. To my ears,

whether I listen to classical, jazz, rock or other music, the expo.horns sound more dynamic and alive.

All the best with the Heresy's!

[maxg]

Put me down for a me too on that one:

"I still have a preference for the dynamics and impact of music delivered by the Heritage line. To my ears,

whether I listen to classical, jazz, rock or other music, the expo.horns sound more dynamic and alive."

Nicely put.

[Mike Lindsey]

Vahorns,

If you are looking for a great review on the Cornwalls... go here

Mike

[ShapeShifter]

Originally posted by JoshT:

Summary: I love these speakers. Everyone should have more than one pair of Klipsch speakers from different stages of Klipsch history!

Enjoyed your comments & certainly agree with the last sentence.

Wes

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"KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f>

This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 03-21-2002 at 03:25 PM

[MZklipsch]

Love to hear te review from Josh! Heresy II are still sensational speakers in many respects. Their "bass speed" as well as their warm upper-bass and full midrange should stand as a reference for new klipsch speakers, also their tremendous dynamics. Add better resolution in the high-frequency range, maybe better imagine, and more deep-bass and you have a tremendous high-end speaker.

In my comparisons between Klf30 (20) I also liked more the H-II's midrange, its more "there", less thin and warmer. I use McIntosh gear which suits very well.

Mark

[JoshT]

Thanks for all the feed back everyone.

Having now spent about a week listening to the Heresys IIs, I can say that they just continue to grow on me. There they sit in front of the towering KLF20s, and I find myself in no real hurry go go back, though I'm sure I will be pleasantly surprised when I do since I really love both sets of speakers. I am still feeling that Klipsch has done a great job in the Legends at preserving the Heritage sound while appealing to a broader market and delivering stronger bass response (not quite as tight, perhaps, but close). Still, if the sight of these way out in the livingroom in front of the KLF20s wasn't so ridiculous, I could see them there for quite some time. There is a warmth and dynamics that the Legends just don't quite match -- even with SS gear. And the vocals are sounding fine to me now, so I suppose it is all what one is used to.

I hope to borrow a Cary SLI-80 for the weekend so I can check these out with tubes. If I pull that off, I'll let you know what I think of the amp and the combo with the Heresys.

I want a bigger apartment! That way I could keep my HT system 100% Legend, have a tube driven Heresy II system (or even switch to Cornwalls eventually), and keep my silly "highend" B&W/Krell bedroom system, which I must admit sounds very nice in its own way. But something has to go -- It's a one bedroom city apartment for crying out loud! :-)

[NOSValves]

JoshT

I've had my Heresey 1s for about 2 weeks now and just love them. I don't even listen to my other setup anymore. There are nothing short of amazing.

Do you use your Sub with them for 2 channel music ??

[JoshT]

I don't even have a sub actually. I know it would improve the HT a lot, but I live in an apartment building and I worry about pissing off the neighbors. So, for now I just rely on the dual 10" woofers of the KLF20s.