more bass at a low volume

[vnzbd]

The Pioneer is in the garage because it is an old Pro-logic receiver and has an internal fan that never shuts off! I do use the loudness button with it especially if the garage door is open. The Marantz was just fine for my KLF-10s but was thin with the Chorus IIs. The Emotiva makes a huge difference in sound quality and in bass responce at a higher volume. I would consider moving the CIIs to the garage and bringing the 10s inside but after living with the 3-way and specifically the mids, I don't feel that I could go backwards. I agree about the sub and my neighbors but I am going to look at a SW-8 tonight just for giggles. The price is right and just maybe....

[Dennie]

I had an 8" sub at one point and it made more muddiness than Bass. But, if you're looking for mid-bass, maybe it will help. I just wouldn't recommend an 8" sub to anyone.

Dennie

[tragusa3]

I agree with Claude. The Dynamic EQ that comes with Audyssey is really incredible in what it does for my system. When you decide for new equipment make sure to get it.

[pauln]

I'm surprized no one has challenged the idea of seeking more bass at low volume.

The FM curve is not meant to indicate how much you should increase the bass for a low level of listening to sound "right". It indicates that at low listening levels there should not be the expectation of much bass (and treble). Attempting to get a loud level flat response at low levels will always result in an artificial sound; real sound does not sound like that and fooling with subs or altering the EQ to get a fat low bass sound at low volumes is really grossly departing from the natural sound.

The message of the FM curve is that the reduced bass and treble at lower levels IS the true natural flat response one should expect to hear at that level. not that something is missing. The reality is that low level sound is going have less bass and treble unless you artificially boost it. I would think we were well past the era of "bad HiFi" when people thought that good sound meant getting lots of "boom and twinkle" ...

Just my thoughts, I'm sure many will disagree.

[Chris A]

I'm sure many will disagree...

Yep, but it's okay. Texians need to stick together...[8]

[DTLongo]

"I'm surprized no one has challenged the idea of seeking more bass at low volume."

To remind, the original poster's request was for advice on how to get greater bass at lower volumes in a townhouse without using a subwoofer. Yes, there is the purist view that one should interpose no tone controls or enhancements at all between the original source and speakers so as to realize a flat signal. But that means, because of Fletcher-Munson curve ear characteristics, that at lower volumes the sound will sound very thin indeed. Tone controls, Loudness controls and processing can only do so much. As a practical solution, I still think an inexpensive smaller powered subwoofer is the way to go. The subwoofer need not be turned up much at all to add back subjectively-satisfying bass at lower volumes that would be pleasing to that particular listener. Heck, I use a subwoofer at lower volumes in just that way with my "mighty Klipschorns." The ultimate question is audio purity versus pleasure. If I'm the one laying out the $, yes I want purity and fidelity but pleasure too. Turn up the bass and don't be apologetic about it <g>.

[SWL]

people thought that good sound meant getting lots of "boom and twinkle"

Guilty as charged here.

Nowdays it's just fatiguing to my ears. Once you hear playback from your system that is smooth, detailed and dynamic at low volumes it is very rewarding. Throw in a fair amount of headroom and the need for boosting your bass at lower volumes isn't neccessary. I use a subwoofer less and less these days.....I attribute that from treating the acoustics in the room. Properly treating the room tamed the nasty reflections making the highs smoother and the bass more prominent. Bass traps smoothed out the bass.....but in no way took any away. The enhancement was great....even for a "bass head" like myself. []

[ClaudeJ1]

"I'm surprized no one has challenged the idea of seeking more bass at low volume."

To remind, the original poster's request was for advice on how to get greater bass at lower volumes in a townhouse without using a subwoofer. Yes, there is the purist view that one should interpose no tone controls or enhancements at all between the original source and speakers so as to realize a flat signal. But that means, because of Fletcher-Munson curve ear characteristics, that at lower volumes the sound will sound very thin indeed. Tone controls, Loudness controls and processing can only do so much. As a practical solution, I still think an inexpensive smaller powered subwoofer is the way to go. The subwoofer need not be turned up much at all to add back subjectively-satisfying bass at lower volumes that would be pleasing to that particular listener. Heck, I use a subwoofer at lower volumes in just that way with my "mighty Klipschorns." The ultimate question is audio purity versus pleasure. If I'm the one laying out the $, yes I want purity and fidelity but pleasure too. Turn up the bass and don't be apologetic about it <g>.

In the spirit of the original intent, as you re-emphasized: AUDYSSEY dynamic EQ with Loudness Plus proportional/variable loudness contour based on high level computational horspower and a very good microphone.....built into any midrange AV receiver at around $500. Beware of too many opinions, use SCIENCE.........it really works.

[DTLongo]

In the spirit of the original intent, as you re-emphasized: AUDYSSEY dynamic EQ with Loudness Plus proportional/variable loudness contour based on high level computational horspower and a very good microphone.....built into any midrange AV receiver at around $500. Beware of too many opinions, use SCIENCE.........it really works.

Thanks, ClaudeJ1. I did not know about this Audyssey dynamic EQ option before. I did a quick Google and Audyssey sounds very promising. Certainly something to consider if and when I upgrade with a new receiver.

[psg]

Thanks for the input on the subject. I did try JB's option of turning down the treble vs turning up the bass. I found that -3db on the treble along with +2db on the bass did make a noticable difference, but not quite enough. I have thought of adding a sub but because I live in a townhouse it might be a little much. I was surfing and came across a product called a MaxxBass 102. It uses sub-harmoics to give the impression of more bass and is one button defeatable for when I do want to listen at a louder volume. I would guess I listen at a higher level only 10-20% of the time. Does anyone have any feedback on the MaxxBass product?

Something like this?

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/141117.aspx

[Randyman]

Why don't you try just turning the speaker levels up in your menu when your listing at low volumes?

[vnzbd]

Would that not be the same as just turning up the main volume control?

[russ69]

The Emotiva can sound a little lean. You might think about adding a component that is a little bass heavy to offset the amp leanness. Two things I have tried that really worked was a NAD pre-amp or a NAD player. Both had copious amounts of bass. It sounds like you could use a real pre-amp and that would be a big upgrade.

[vnzbd]

I had not considered the possibility of the pre-amp making a difference. With the Marantz I have adjusted the tone controls to favor the low end. Do most pre-amps also offer tone controls if needed? Does all of the Emotiva products sound "lean"? Other than Emotiva, what other bang for you buck brands should be considered?

[mark1101]

I'm surprised no one has asked yet about speaker placement. Don't Chorus II have a passive radiator? Do you have them in corners like they need to be, or against a wall? Have you tried moving them closer or a little further from the corners or wall? It could be a game of inches. That will change the bass repsonse.

What tap are the speakers connected to on the amp? 8ohms, 4 ohms? Have you tried switching? That will also change the bass repsonse

These are just some additional simple things to try.