How To Improve Sound from La Scala's

[HOGFAN]

I picked up a pair of '78 La Scala's a few weeks back.....great condition.....all original components....no upgrades/mods. I have them hooked to a Sansui AU-717 integrated amp. Overall, the sound is very good at lower volumes, but can get pretty fatiguing (harsh sounding) at mid/high volumes.....especially with female vocals. I am using a hi-def type dvd player to play CD's. What should I be looking at to improve the sound.....within reason? I really don't want to get into tubes....can't afford it. What would be the top 2 or 3 things that I should change in my system? Would I hear a noticable difference by upgrading the LS's a bit....like the crossovers, which are type AA, (like putting in new caps) and maybe upgrading the tweeters? Secondly, is there a much better amp for the speakers than the Sansui.....say under $500 (new/used)? Lastly, would I get much improvement in picking up a better CD player? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Hogfan

[crd97086]

Hi. The fatigue you are experiencing is from the harsh tweeter and midrange. Purchase Bob Crites drop in tweeter and a
Fastrac drop in mid horn. It isn't free but it will save your nerves.

[Ironsave]

Before you spend $400 or more replacing the speaker components.....

I recommend replacing the capacitors in the Xovers.

Also, what kind of floors are in the room? (Room treatments; curtains and rugs; can make a night and day difference).....

I am not sure about your amp; but there are other receivers and amps that are known for sounding "warmer"; like Marantz and HK.

Finally; consider using an EQ to remove a bit off the edges......

(My receiver has a built in EQ for each channel).......

Good Luck!

[Chris A]

Overall, the sound is very good at lower volumes, but can get pretty fatiguing (harsh sounding) at mid/high volumes.....especially with female vocals.

This is a midrange/tweeter crossover issue, IMHO. ALK Engineering (Al Klappenberger) and Bob Crites (BEC) have some solutions. But as a minimum, changing the crossover is going to be your biggest bang-for-buck, again IMHO.

Chris

[HOGFAN]

My setup is in a 14x20 room....speakers are in the corners of short wall. The flooring is carpet....9' ceiling.

I have been told the Sanui is a very good amp, but starting to wonder if it mates well with the LS's. If I should look at changing amps, what should I look for.....again, under $500....better yet, $300-$400...if possible. Used is OK with me. I have been hearing good things about the older HK twin powered amps.....430, 730 etc. Also, I also hear the Music Hall A25.2 is a really good amp.....and can be picked up for $350. However, I don't want to switch amps unless it really improves the sound.....noticably. After more thought, should I just start with upgrading the tweeters and re-capping the crossovers on the LS's?

[Chris A]

After more thought, should I just start with upgrading the tweeters and re-capping the crossovers on the LS's?

I'd go for the crossover upgrade and the Crites tweeters. That will most def. address the problem.

Using different amplifiers, I'm sorry to say, just puts a patch on a chronic problem, IMHO.

You can still try different amps after you get the root problem under control--at least that's how I approached the problem. I currently use an active crossover (EV Dx38) to tri-amp my Belle center, but the cost of three stereo amps (Crown D-75As, used at about $150-200 each off of craigslist), XLR cables, electronics equipment rack (about $150 new) and used active crossovers (about $450 each, again craigslist or ebay) may dissuade you from that path. You will also need three wires per speaker. But the flexibility and other sonic advantages work out for me.

By the way, the problem dissappeared when I made the change. I haven't changed tweeters out.

Chris

[tragusa3]

I found that room treatments and Audyssey MultEQ took that "edge" off for me. But I'm hoping that new caps will improve things even more.

[Guest " "]

if your OK with the LaScala's at low volumes, but not OK with them at high volumes, I would reccomend you visit someone who has AL-3 or better crossovers and listen to them. I wasn't happy with Heritage products at high volume until I got to at least an AL-4, and/or AL's from ALK eng steeper sloping xovers.

Right now, Im using modified AL-4's.

[tube fanatic]

How loudly do you play the system? You mention not being able to afford tubes; however, if you only need a few watts/channel due to your listening habit (remember that these speakers can produce enormous sound pressure levels with minimal power- a friend drives his family out of the house running only 4wpc into his Cornwalls which are not as efficient as the La Scalas), tubes can be an extremely affordable alternative. Granted, you may still have to replace the caps in the crossovers, but that's a cheap fix. La Scalas and tubes are very synergistic! As an example of what's out there in affordable, and decent, tube equipment check this out:

http://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84C.htm

http://www.miniwatt.com.hk/amplifiers/miniwatt-n3.html/

Both of these have received favorable press and would serve as a nice introduction to tube amplification. The first one even comes with a lifetime warranty!

[Max2]

Hey Hogfan. Im in Conway and have a set of LaScalas with the AL-3's that you are welcome to come listen to for a comparison. I dont think you should have to swap any driver to get a decent sound out of what you have though. IMO, If I knew I was keeping the LS's I would either upgrade to some AL-3's or rebuild what you have. Since your X-overs are 32+ or- years old you may just have some X-over components out of spec.

[o0O Bill O0o]

Before you spend $400 or more replacing the speaker components.....

I recommend replacing the capacitors in the Xovers.

Also, what kind of floors are in the room? (Room treatments; curtains and rugs; can make a night and day difference).....

I am not sure about your amp; but there are other receivers and amps that are known for sounding "warmer"; like Marantz and HK.

Finally; consider using an EQ to remove a bit off the edges......

(My receiver has a built in EQ for each channel).......

Good Luck!

EQ +1

[Dennie]

Crossovers! (Capacitors)

I replaced my original 1979 La Scala crossovers with Bob Crites Type A/AA convertible crossovers and it was like taking a Vail/Blanket off of my speakers. Mine suffered from the same problem you described. Not anymore! From quiet to LOUD, they sound fantastic!

Think they sound good at low volume now, just wait!!! []

Keep us posted and Congratulations!

Dennie

[Ironsave]

EQ +1

Yep,

Granted I own the LS' little brothers; but after I did the caps (nice improvement);

The receiver's eq has brought me closer to audio bliss......

Debates have been had many times about this; but I believe PWK even acknowledged this was ok for certain situations.

I listen to all music via PC.... Just upgraded to Windows 7; so my old (great) soundcard is not supported.

I have just ordered a Asus Xonar; but even with onboard sound... My speakers still sound really good.

(It is nice to be able to EQ each CHANNEL individually with my receiver).

Many great ideas here..... Good Luck.

[Dennie]

Okay! Okay!

I use an EQ also! It makes a big difference and eliminates the room from the equation! Sweet, Sweet Music!

Audio Control C 101 III......

See! No room problems at all!! []

Dennie (I stole the picture on-line, mine is actually in my house and connected![])

[artarama]

My setup is in a 14x20 room....speakers are in the corners of short wall. The flooring is carpet....9' ceiling.

I would suggest the first thing you try is simply moving them out of the corners a bit. You have a good sized room. Try pulling them out about four feet from the front wall and two feet away from the side walls and toe them in a bit.

Second I would clean up all the connections at the drivers and on the crossovers and replace the gasket on the midrange driver. Just screw it off (left to loosen) You can find a usable O-ring at your local Ace hardware and Bob sells exact replacements.

That's all the easy and cheap, almost free stuff.

You didn't mention being unhappy with the bass output. I sometimes used a sub with mine, but liked it better with out most of the time.

If you are still not satisfied, then I would look at what tubefanatic recommended. He had great input when I was buying my Scott. I swapped a few solid state set-ups around and played with equalizing and by far the tube amp made the largest single difference.

I like the LaScala's a lot with both solid state and tubes, tubes just seem to make it easier to sound good. Note that I mine are "stock" I have not changed caps or modified the crossovers so I do not know how those changes would compare. They are amazing speakers... Oil them (unless their painted) and Love them!

[Ironsave]

Okay! Okay!

I use an EQ also! It makes a big difference and eliminates the room from the equation! Sweet, Sweet Music!

Audio Control C 101 III......

See! No room problems at all!!

Dennie (I stole the picture on-line, mine is actually in my house and connected!)

Dennie,

As stated (by me) previously.....

You truly are class.......

Hope to meet you face to face someday my friend!

[DanO55]

Like some have said: Replace the oil cans with high quality caps like Auri or Solens, MusicCap, etc for a little bit of change first. I double double recommend tube audio. I recently gave my older brother a 15 watt per channel 6BQ5 integrated amp for his Cornwalls. He was overwhelmed to say the least. Hate to use this overused comment but his quote was "Its like the band is right in front of me" (albums).

[HOGFAN]

Thanks to all for the great feedback. I think I will start with refreshing the LS's.....new caps and maybe the CT125 tweeters from Bob....I'll also check the gasket on the mid horn. Overall, the bass is very acceptable. I may look at adding a sub down the road, but not a priority now. I like to listen around mid/high volume (about 9 or 10 o'clock on the Sansui dial). If this doesn't remedy the issue, I'll then start looking at replacing my amp and/or CD player.

If I end up replacing the amp (hopefully I won't need to), would a 3 or 4 watt tube amp give me enough power....in comparison to the Sansui AU-717 (which I believe is 85 wpc)? I don't know how many watts I usually use of the Sansui when volume dial is at 10 o'clock.....I know it is pretty loud.....floors are vibrating a bit. Of course, right now I have to choose the right music to play at that volume.....no thin vocals.

I really appreciate all the great advice you all have added.

[Chris A]

If I end up replacing the amp (hopefully I won't need to), would a 3 or 4 watt tube amp give me enough power

Here is a PWK excerpt from "Dope from Hope" (Vol. 22, number 3, 27 Oct. 1983--the "10%" column is slightly higher than the La Scala's efficiency - i.e., the La Scala will not quite produce the SPL listed based on the last column):

		Peak Sound Level in Typical Room
Loudspeaker Efficiency -->		0.10%	1.00%	10%
Peak Amplifier Watts Output	1	80	90	100
	10	90	100	110
	20	93	103	113
	100	100	110	120
	1,000	110	120	130

If you listen at rock concert volume or watch movies using these, you'll need more power. Also note that bass transients can be significantly higher than 100 dB(SPL) for music material that nominally plays at a lower SPL--hearing is less sensitive in the lf bands.

I think I will start with refreshing the LS's.....new caps and maybe the CT125 tweeters from Bob

The real issue is that the mid-horn is not crossed over on the high end in the stock crossovers, and that produces the strident sound that you describe. There may be additional harseness in the tweeter at the 6 KHz stock crossover point. That is why you might want to change out the tweeters, but I'd listen to them first using upgraded crossovers.

Chris []

[tromprof]

I agree with all the advice regarding refreshing or replacing the crossovers,esp. using Bob Crites' stuff. Tubes really do a great job with the big Klipsch speakers, but I have found even with tubes they need a little EQing (or maybe the room does, however you want to look at it). I use the Behringer DEQ2496 and like many forum members I have been extremely happy with both of mine. Behringer get a well deserved bad reputation for selling a lot of junk, but the DEQ2496 is a well designed unit with built in RTA (real time analysis) and mine have given me no problems. The difference with them in the system is huge.