Fastrac K in 2010 AK-5 Khorns

[Boydfp]

I purchased a new set of Fastrac K horns to go into my 2010 Khorns. During the installation I did need to improvise as the 2010 top had is configured differently than the older Klipschorns. Because there wasn’t sufficient clearances to install the horn support as designed I ended up using the horn support on its side as a block of wood supporting the squared to round adapter at the end of the horn. It works and the horns look level.

Initially I installed the horns on just the left speaker and played a mono record so that I could compare between the Fastrac K and K-401. Even with this older recording the difference between the two horns was apparent and discernible by both my wife and oldest daughter. Both described the sound as more open. At this point I felt the horn was a nice upgrade and worth the price though it didn’t seem to be an over the top change.

As I went on to better recordings my ears settled in and the difference between the horns became much greater. The Fastrac Ks sound more rich and high end. They have an openness and ease to them that is hard to describe. When I played Norah Jones and Diana Krall I found both of their voices to sound much smoother. I found myself turning up the volume to enjoy the Khorns dynamics, something I avoided doing with the K-401s. All in all a great bang for the buck upgrade and highly recommended. I can’t ever see myself going back to the stock horns.

I should mention that all this listening was done with the stock AK-5 crossovers. I had limited funds and had considered replacing the crossovers first but Al Klappenberger suggested I change the horn first even though the mix of the AK-5 and Fastrac K was as he described not ideal.

Now I’m anxious to hear what the Alk crossovers sound like with this horn. I’ve got my eye on a set of AP12-350s and ES5800s. Looks like I’ll have to sell that old guitar I don’t play anymore.

[khorn#1]

Boydfp,

I know first hand what you mean when describing the overall improvement when replacing the k-401. I have Greg Roberts fc-260 two inch horns in my 2004 khorns. They completely revoiced my khorns, I did install the BMS two inch drivers which I think as well as others is a huge improvement over the k-55 but if I were staying in the one inch format, I would stay with the k-55, its not a bad driver at all. I had ALK trachorns before with the k-55 and it was much improved over the k-401.

Yes, you need to save your pennies for one of Al Klappenberger's crossovers. I have his ES networks in my khorns and will say that it was money well spent. Al is first rate with his technical knowledge and background in filter and crossover design. His networks as well as the 2 inch format mid horn and Bob Crites tweeter made my khorns the best I have heard.

Another thing I might add, if you possibly go the complete ES network route, the main advantage to these networks are at higher SPL'S. When I sit down and have a serious listening session, I turn my system up and thats where the ES networks shine. Very smooth and clear from top to bottom, no driver overlap at these levels is an advantage or at least it is at my house. If you stay at mid or lower volumns most of the time, I would go with one of Al's other designs. I have run the ALK universal networks for a time through my khorns and they were very nice at lower or mid listening levels especially nice with smooth jazz music. More upfront and in your face if you will than the ES networks are at lower or mid levels. Just my listening experience and opinion.

You want go wrong with any of Al's networks.

Thanks,

Randy

[Al Klappenberger]

HOT DOG! Now Dave and I have an excuse to raise our prices! []

Al K.

[Guest David H]

All in all a great bang for the buck upgrade and highly recommended. I can’t ever see myself going back to the stock horns.

Thank you for the kind words, I am pleased you are enjoying the horns.

Dave Harris

[khorn#1]

Al,

We love ya but, we don't love you that much. Keep those prices where they are. LOL.

Randy

[Al Klappenberger]

RATS! I thought I could finally cash in! [:'(]

Al K.

[TheEvan]

Okay, I'll bite...what old guitar?

[Boydfp]

Its a Godin LGX SA

[Guest David H]

Its a Godin LGX SA

Very Nice.

[Marvel]

Godin's are nice! I recently sold my all mahogany LG P90. It was just about flawless.

Bruce

[Boydfp]

Beautiful guitar Bruce!

[Boydfp]

Boydfp,

I know first hand what you mean when describing the overall improvement when replacing the k-401. I have Greg Roberts fc-260 two inch horns in my 2004 khorns. They completely revoiced my khorns, I did install the BMS two inch drivers which I think as well as others is a huge improvement over the k-55 but if I were staying in the one inch format, I would stay with the k-55, its not a bad driver at all. I had ALK trachorns before with the k-55 and it was much improved over the k-401.

Yes, you need to save your pennies for one of Al Klappenberger's crossovers. I have his ES networks in my khorns and will say that it was money well spent. Al is first rate with his technical knowledge and background in filter and crossover design. His networks as well as the 2 inch format mid horn and Bob Crites tweeter made my khorns the best I have heard.

Another thing I might add, if you possibly go the complete ES network route, the main advantage to these networks are at higher SPL'S. When I sit down and have a serious listening session, I turn my system up and thats where the ES networks shine. Very smooth and clear from top to bottom, no driver overlap at these levels is an advantage or at least it is at my house. If you stay at mid or lower volumns most of the time, I would go with one of Al's other designs. I have run the ALK universal networks for a time through my khorns and they were very nice at lower or mid listening levels especially nice with smooth jazz music. More upfront and in your face if you will than the ES networks are at lower or mid levels. Just my listening experience and opinion.

You want go wrong with any of Al's networks.

Thanks,

Randy

Randy:

I considered the V-trac but it was a little out of my price range. I've considered the Universal networks as my speakers are only about ten feet away from the listening position. However, I do like to lean into the volume at times and my Klipschorns are part of a home theater system. I wonder if you had an active crossover if you could store different slopes for different types of listening.

Larry

[Guest David H]

I wonder if you had an active crossover if you could store different slopes for different types of listening.

You can do that, but its a real pain IMO, and difficult to setup. My reccomendation is to stick with passive networks.

Dave

[khorn#1]

Larry,

Let me clarify what I said earlier, the Alk universal does seem to shine at lower and mid volumn especially with smooth jazz, folk or less busy music like heavy rock or metal but, they would be in my system if the ES networks were not available.

If you can, get yourself a pair of the universals from Al and try them for a couple of weeks. I think he offers this option for someone that wants to try his crossovers. Yes, of course you might have to give him a credit- debit card number for him to hold during the trial period, Ask Al about his payment terms.

But, overall, you will like Al's universals over the Klipsch stock networks. Give them a try if you can. I think you will like how they perform.

Thanks,

Randy

[Coytee]

I wonder if you had an active crossover if you could store different slopes for different types of listening.

You can do that, but its a real pain IMO, and difficult to setup. My reccomendation is to stick with passive networks.

I agree that starting from scratch and knowing what paramaters might need to be programmed into an active might be difficult.... aside from that, I couldn't disagree with that comment more.

If a monky-brain like me can go from a passive to fully active situation over-night AND program the little goober with various tweeks... then I can assure you just about anyone can. Now, the main difference here is, I was indeed given the base paramaters that need to be programmed in. I had no thought/engineering to do in that regard. So I can see where coming up with the recipe could be an issue of sorts.... beyond that...it's merely a matter of hitting "recall" for any different/saved programs.

You of course, then have the issue of extra amps but for all we know he's already got some laying around (I did). Boydfp, there is certainly no arguing that using a passive is the easiest way to go since it's literally plug & play. No doubt, no question. That said, I'd suggest you find out more about going active and the tasks involved with it. You might agree and feel it's too daunting. You might decide to give it a whirl. (you can always go back to passive if you want)

[Boydfp]

Coytee:

Thanks for your response. I do have a couple of extra solid state amps I could use for the bass bins. If I recall correctly you utilize a Klipsch engineered and tested active crossover design for your two-way Jubiless. Does somebody have a similar ready-to-go design for a three-way Klipschorn?

I have a Velodyne SMS-1 bass equalizer where I can adjust the low pass crossover frequncy, low pass slope, subsonic crossover, subsonic slope, phase delay (to align phasing with front speakers), level settings (to match level with front speakers), and parametric equalizer settings. I can then store up to five different settings each retrievable with a single button push. I was wondering if something similar was available for active crossovers.

Larry

[Guest David H]

I can then store up to five different settings each retrievable with a single button push. I was wondering if something similar was available for active crossovers

Does somebody have a similar ready-to-go design for a three-way Klipschorn?

There are several digital active 3way crossovers available with memory settings.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DCX2496.aspx The Behringer is a powerful tool, features 3way active crossover with EQ, time delay, etc. The Behringer stock is a decent sounding unit stock and there are several mods available. The down side of the Behinger is that many have reported reliability issues, I have 2 of these units, both modified, and not had any issues with them.

http://www.dbxpro.com/260/index.php The DBX Drive rack, I have seen good reports about this unit. I have not tried one myself so there is little I can tell you about function. From what I have heard the DBX is a good sounding solid piece of gear. The functions and layout are near identical to the Behringer with a price tag 3X the size.

http://www.ashly.com/protea3.6sp.htm Ashley Protea Crossover also seems to have similar functions and features to the DBX and Behringer. I have no experiance with this unit, But I have used and very much like the layout and simplistic functions of the Ashley XR series analog crossovers. http://www.ashly.com/xrspecs.html

All of these active crossovers are designed for pro-audio use, but seem to work well in a home environment if you have the ability to set it and forget it, if not you may drive yourself crazy. I like a system with 2 settings, one good one that sucks, makes selection simple.

Here is a pic of my tube output mod Behringer DCX

[Coytee]

I was wondering if something similar was available for active crossovers.

I'm by no means an expert on actives.... indeed... to say that I'm "knowlegable" alone is somewhat of a stretch. I understand there are good & better actives. The unit I'm using is 2-in 4-out so unless you got two of them, it wouldn't fit your needs...unless you simply used it to split the signal from your woofer bin on one side and the entire mid/high end on the other side. This would mean the internal passive would deal with splitting the mids/highs.

If you get a 2-in 6 out, keep in mind there is one that is 4-in, 8-out. It's from Ashly and I think it's called a Protea or something similar. At least one forum member has one, after having tried several others. I think he feels it's the better sounding of the units he's tried. I'll admit that having 4-in, 8-out would be interesting. I'm considering getting one myself down the road (I already have another active sitting idle so I don't need yet another one yet). If I got one, then I could have a single active used to biamp three speakers across the front and still have two more outlets for subs. Right now, to get that I would need both of my current actives.

[mark1101]

Gotover and Coytee mention a few processors. There are many more out there at prices all over the place........into the thousands. I recommend very careful shopping. Download and read manuals before you buy to understand the features. They are all a little different. Some have restrictions on the numbers and types of EQ settings that can be used simultaneously. Some sound better than others. In my experience I found that at around $1200-$1500 you find a group of very nice processors that have enough I/O and features to do 3 and 4 way systems with plenty to spare. I have a 4-way system and use an Ashly Protea 4.8SP. I would buy that unit again every day of the week. Still, there are much better ones out there. SInce it will be the heart of your system I don't recommend cheaping out on this component. Don't buy one till you can afford a good one. If you buy an EV DX-38, which is a decent unit, Klipsch can provide settings for that unit for a Jubilee system which is a very good thing since Jubs can be finicky to tune. I would not recommend purchasing that unit unless you own Jubilees though as it is only good for 2-way systems and offers no opportunity for expansion other than to add multiple units.

[Coytee]

Mark, I'm glad you commented. I sent him a pm on the side trying to paraphrase some of your thoughts. Much better for him to read it first person.