stream Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Hey guys, I have what's probably a dumb question. I'm buying an Onkyo TX-SR608 receiver for my HT, and I'll be using it with RF-7's. I've read that you can use the amp's back surround outputs to bi-amp your fronts. The amp is 100wpc, so I assume the speakers would be getting 200w total. I know this wouldn't be exactly the same as using two actual amps, but would it be pretty close? I assume it would at least be more effective than a single channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 some HT receivers let you bi-amp using extra channels, some let you bridge using extra channels. As long as you follow the instructions in your receiver manual and the instructions from your speaker manufacture what will differ is the config controls but the outcome will be the same. if you go the bridge route, make sure your speakers are twice the impedance of the min recommended for any given channel or 4th of july will come early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I've read that you can use the amp's back surround outputs to bi-amp your fronts. The amp is 100wpc, so I assume the speakers would be getting 200w total. I know this wouldn't be exactly the same as using two actual amps, but would it be pretty close? If the receiver is actually bi-amping, i.e., two amplifiers/speaker with separate speaker wires and separated channels in your crossover, it would be like more than just doubling the power... http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/135423/1371876.aspx#1371876 Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 "it would be like more than just doubling the power..." Only if you remove the factory crossover and use an electronic crossover ahead of the amplifiers. This will also require duplicating the EQ that the passive crossover provides for the horn. The reason many people refer to passive biamping as 'fools biamping' is that is does not delive the promise of true biamping (with an electronic crossover). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stream Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 I'll check in the owner's manual to make sure, but wouldn't the amp serve as the crossover if you're using its bi-amping feature? So I'll have to disable the crossover inside the speaker? I'm not real sure I'm up to that, so I may just forget about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I am not quite sure I understand the receiver bi-amping thing. Being that your receiver has (1) power supply/transformer, how will hooking up rear channels to the fronts add anything, let alone double the power? My NAD receiver has (2) huge toroidal transformers, one for fronts, one for center and surrounds. In that case it may add some power to the fronts being the power will be regulated from a different power source. Does this seem logical or am I way off base? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stream Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 I am not quite sure I understand the receiver bi-amping thing. Being that your receiver has (1) power supply/transformer, how will hooking up rear channels to the fronts add anything, let alone double the power? My NAD receiver has (2) huge toroidal transformers, one for fronts, one for center and surrounds. In that case it may add some power to the fronts being the power will be regulated from a different power source. Does this seem logical or am I way off base? Bill Hi Bill,Well, the receiver is 100wpc, and it's designed specifically so that you can "bi-amp" using the front output and the back surround outputs if they aren't in use. I assume that means the front channel is sending 100w and the back surround channel is sending 100w. Maybe it doesn't actually work that way - someone correct me if I'm wrong. If the amp is capable of sending 100 watts each to seven channels (or however many it has), why can't it send 200 watts over two channels to one set of speakers?Oh, and the amp is an Onkyo TX-SR608. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I have 2 receivers that have both a bi-amp feature and a bridge feature. On my recievers, in 7 channel mode you get 7 X 160. In bi-amp mode you get 160 for HF and 160 for LF on two channels and can have up to three other channels doing 160X3. in bridge mode, same thing, 320X2 and up to 3 channels at 160X3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 If the amp is capable of sending 100 watts each to seven channels (or however many it has), why can't it send 200 watts over two channels to one set of speakers? Aye, there's the rub. Most "7 x 100 watt" receivers may put out 100 watts to two or even three channels, but when powering more channels, the power per channel drops off rapidly, to 5 x 60 or 7 x 40, or something in those ranges. The limiting factor seems to be the power supply, not the individual amp channels.If you ask the dealer about it, they may say something like, "Yes, it's a bit misleading, but all the other manufacturers do it, so nobody would buy our receivers if we rated our 7-channel 100Wpc receiver at 7 x 40, so we have to do like they do..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stream Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 If the amp is capable of sending 100 watts each to seven channels (or however many it has), why can't it send 200 watts over two channels to one set of speakers? Aye, there's the rub. Most "7 x 100 watt" receivers may put out 100 watts to two or even three channels, but when powering more channels, the power per channel drops off rapidly, to 5 x 60 or 7 x 40, or something in those ranges. The limiting factor seems to be the power supply, not the individual amp channels.If you ask the dealer about it, they may say something like, "Yes, it's a bit misleading, but all the other manufacturers do it, so nobody would buy our receivers if we rated our 7-channel 100Wpc receiver at 7 x 40, so we have to do like they do..." I guess the question now is whether 2 x 50 would be better than 1 x 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I guess the question now is whether 2 x 50 would be better than 1 x 100. The dual connectors on many Klipsch speakers are to enable bi-wiring, not bi-amping, because it was a trendy selling point at one time. True bi-amping gets quite a bit more technical, and expensive, too, with active electronic crossovers and so on.With your set-up, connecting your speakers in the conventional manner with some decent speaker wire of 12 or 14 gauge (or larger if you like) will mean the fewest connections and possibly cleanest sound. Down the road, when your budget permits, you might want to look into getting a high-quality separate power amp, which will give you possibly more power and higher quality sound, if it's better and more powerful than what you're using now.I don't mean that to sound condescending in any way. It's just that some people think all separate power amps are an upgrade, which is not always the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vnzbd Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I have a Marantz AVR that offers the same ability to bi-wire. I look at it this way. If you do not bi-wire, then you would have 100 watts to the lows and mid/highs. If you do bi-wire, then you still have no more than 100 watts to the lows and mid/highs. The lows take up the juice so isolating them you may actually lower the power available to them based on a typical AVR lower wattage delivered with the more channels used. I did try to bi-wire with my Marantz and I could hear no gain. I lived in an apartment and could not really crank to hear at much higher levels. If more power is desired, I would say go with an external amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 INMHO there is no advantage to bi-wiring. It is simply a "Marketing" ploy. There is no substitute to "More Horsepower". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 Hey guys, I have what's probably a dumb question.I'm buying an Onkyo TX-SR608 receiver for my HT, and I'll be using it with RF-7's. I've read that you can use the amp's back surround outputs to bi-amp your fronts. The amp is 100wpc, so I assume the speakers would be getting 200w total. I know this wouldn't be exactly the same as using two actual amps, but would it be pretty close? I assume it would at least be more effective than a single channel. If you are using both the front and back surround outputs and you are able to route the same signal to both, you would be bi-amping though not getting a big bang for the buck since you are still using the speakers internal crossover though maybe a slight benefit. If you were able to hook an active crossover before the typical Six channel direct input for your receiver and remove the crossovers in the speakers, then you could use the internal amplifiers to drive the low and high frequency sections of the RF7 independently. Just make sure they are hooked up right and you likely won't have any bass management as that is usually done in the digital domain to non-analog inputs. You would then be able to use your receiver as a basic volume control/amplifier/pre-amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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