Elemental design A5-350 owners need your input

[robc1976]

Check the specs on your speakers.

Herre is what it states;FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 33Hz-24KHz ± 3dB

So what do you suggest I sedt the frequency response at? 45-htz?

[BluBitRates]

People will tell you differently about crossovers. Say you set it to 45 hz then your sub will play everything under 45hz and the speakers will play everything above 45hz. I use a 70-80hz crossover setting. THX settings are 80 hz. Just because you have larger woofers does not mean you have to use them for the lower frequencies, they will push more air than smaller woofers even when they are only hitting 80hz and higher frequencies.

[elitedemo]

im suprised ed still is sending out bad amps...thought they resolved their amp issues by now

on the frequency response 80hz tends to be the sweet spot for subs in ht, id go +/-5 in just about any room unless there are serious issues with some aspect in the setup or room, all speakers get set to small in almost any setup to make the sub preform as it should and lets the speakers do what they are good at which is not producing low end bass (i know the umc offers an option of "mix" for sub and speakers for bass but its doesnt sound as good as keeping them seperated and most avrs just cutoff the use of lfe then like mentioned a earlier)

if i have a capable sub that can reproduce lowend sound around 20hz at a good listening volume why would limit it by setting it in the upwards of 100+hz and then on top of it stress my speakers for doing the opposite task of running lower? neither the speakers or sub are doing what they are good at and my system would be far from optimized

having a sub play to high defeats the purpose of having a sub, if im setting a sub up at more than 80hz it means my speakers are not doing what they are suppose to do and my sub has to pickup the slack, that is about the only reason i can see, the other reason would be a crazy room response in which event you need to evaulate your setup and find the root of the problem

imo let your equipment do what they are made to do and be good at, i dont put blurays in my vhs player or vice versa [Y]

[JasonJCarney]

How are you limiting your sub by setting it at 100hz? It's still going to play down low. You may want to check the frequency response on your speakers. If it says 40hz-22khz then why would you set the xover to 80hz ? Your speakers are absolutely capable of playing down to say 50hz without stress. Putting blurays in your VHS would not work at all. That is not comparable to setting your speakers to xover levels that they are fully capable of playing. That 80hz xover setting is from THX. It's not a global sweet spot.

[JasonJCarney]

Check the specs on your speakers.

Herre is what it states;FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 33Hz-24KHz ± 3dB

So what do you suggest I sedt the frequency response at? 45-htz?

I would set those at 40 or 50 hz. Try them both and see how you like it. I don't know what kind of avr everyone has but my onkyo absolutely does not cut any LFE (sub) signal based on how I set my speaker xover. The RCA preouts for the speakers and sub are separate and they have separate crossovers. Matter of fact they are different xovers in design as well. One is a lowpass filter and one is a high pass filter. Your sub filter will playeverything "below" your set point. Your speaker filter will play everything "above" your setpoint.

[Ironsave]

How are you limiting your sub by setting it at 100hz? It's still going to play down low. You may want to check the frequency response on your speakers. If it says 40hz-22khz then why would you set the xover to 80hz ? Your speakers are absolutely capable of playing down to say 50hz without stress. Putting blurays in your VHS would not work at all. That is not comparable to setting your speakers to xover levels that they are fully capable of playing. That 80hz xover setting is from THX. It's not a global sweet spot.

I believe it is the same theory as setting your speakers set to large.

You are playing frequencies (say 60 hz to 100 hz) that your speakers can play also. Pick ONE SOURCE (speakers or sub) and let them play it. Playing 60-100 hz through speakers AND sub is wasting your sub amp on frequencies already being played.

That is the theory and through A-B testing; it has led me to believe it. (Also, keeping the bass in phase from 2 mains and a sub is cumbersome. It seems to change based on source material quality and type).

As I said before.... To each his own.

I agree with the 80 hz statement. It is just a good starting point.

My Heresies roll off at ~50hz.

I have the Xover for my mains set at 60 hz; so the Heresey Is play down almost all the way to where they roll off, and the sub picks up at 60 hz down to 22hz.

My center is also set at 60 hz and my surrounds 80hz; all 5 set to small.

[Ironsave]

Check the specs on your speakers.

Herre is what it states;FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 33Hz-24KHz ± 3dB

So what do you suggest I sedt the frequency response at? 45-htz?

I would set those at 40 or 50 hz. Try them both and see how you like it. I don't know what kind of avr everyone has but my onkyo absolutely does not cut any LFE (sub) signal based on how I set my speaker xover. The RCA preouts for the speakers and sub are separate and they have separate crossovers. Matter of fact they are different xovers in design as well. One is a lowpass filter and one is a high pass filter. Your sub filter will playeverything "below" your set point. Your speaker filter will play everything "above" your setpoint.

Newer Onkyo's are feature packed. Even my HK AVR3600 does not have an EQ for each speaker.

(I had an Onkyo TX SR702. I loved its features; but even without the features of the Onkyo; the HK just sounded better. More musical. More dynamic)....

Each manufacturer is different. Some (based on small or large) will cut the sub out.

[JasonJCarney]

You are playing frequencies (say 60 hz to 100 hz) that your speakers can play also. Pick ONE SOURCE (speakers or sub) and let them play it. Playing 60-100 hz through speakers AND sub is wasting your sub amp on frequencies already being played.

By that rational you should never own 2 SUBs as you would Just be playing the same frequencies. Of course as I wrote earlier spreading your low frequencies around the room does help smooth out the response so there is an acoustical advantage to having a sub in the back of the room and using your large floorstanders to produce bass in the front of the room. Also it will add to the db level of your system so again it makes sense in that regard. As for wasting your sub amp comment.. that i just dont understand. What are you wasting? Your amp either has the power to play a certain frequency clearly or it doesnt. There is nothing to "waste". Can you maybe ecplain what you mean by that? But like you said, "to each his own". If your ears don't like it then don't do it.

[Ironsave]

You are playing frequencies (say 60 hz to 100 hz) that your speakers can play also. Pick ONE SOURCE (speakers or sub) and let them play it. Playing 60-100 hz through speakers AND sub is wasting your sub amp on frequencies already being played.

By that rational you should never own 2 SUVs as you would Judy be playing the same frequencies. Of course as I wrote earlier spreading your low frequencies around the room does help smooth out the response so there is an acoustical advantage to having a sun in the back of the room and using your large floorstanders to produce bass in the front of the room. But like you said, "to each his own". If your ears don't like it then don't do it.

I do not own SUVs. []

Once you get 2 subs correctly set up and in phase with each other, it usually adds a great deal to the experience.

Why do you think it is recommended to get 2 subs of the same brand and model? (Otherwise; integration can be difficult and often is a compromise).

When subs are set up properly and integrated; you can not tell where the bass is coming from.

[JasonJCarney]

Lol... Why buy floorstanders at all? Just get a mini Bose cube system and a couple of high end subs and it should make you happy! Lol

[JasonJCarney]

Why do you think it is recommended to get 2 subs of the same brand and model? (Otherwise; integration can be difficult and often is a compromise).

Don't confuse ease of setup with higher sound quality.

[Ironsave]

Why do you think it is recommended to get 2 subs of the same brand and model? (Otherwise; integration can be difficult and often is a compromise).

Don't confuse ease of setup with higher sound quality.

Not confusing one with the other; but there is a direct relationship with correct setup to the best SQ possible.

If you can hear where your bass is coming from; the sub is not optimally setup. (And does not sound as good).

[Ironsave]

Lol... Why buy floorstanders at all? Just get a mini Bose cube system and a couple of high end subs and it should make you happy! Lol

Fllorstanders throw a completely larger and more detailed soundstage then cubes.

That statement really offers little to the discussion.

As I said before; RF7s get down to below 40hz. Crossing there and letting the sub take over may offer improvement in dynamic performance of the floorstanding speakers at high volumes, when the receivers amps are being pushed hard.

I also said it is worth trying both setup types before judging.

Have you tried it this way? You might be surprised. I am sure there are many forum members who have theirs set up as I am describing, (more or less) and many who have it set up how you describe. (more or less).

All I am saying is do not knock it till you try it; and even if you choose your way in the end; that does not make my setup wrong.

Nothing is lost in experimenting; and a lot can be gained.

[JasonJCarney]

I have tried it. Crossing my rf63 at 80hz sounds AWFUL to me. To each his own.

[willland]

Once you get 2 subs correctly set up and in phase with each other, it usually adds a great deal to the experience.

I second that, (2) subs integrated properly sound fantastic.

Why do you think it is recommended to get 2 subs of the same brand and model? (Otherwise; integration can be difficult and often is a compromise).

That theory/rule holds true the majority of the time but when exhaustive trial and error with placement, crossovers, phase, and gain have been attempted, great results with (2) different subs can be obtained. My RSW-10d handles the lows from 80Hz down to about 24Hz where my Paradigm Servo 15a joins in at 45Hz and takes it down to around 17Hz. All speaker components(RF-63's, RSW-10d, Servo 15a) are asked to operate within their optimal range and the results have been the best sound quality to ever come out of my system.

When subs are set up properly and integrated; you can not tell where the bass is coming from.

The final results in my system are just that.

Bill

[robc1976]

Well I guess 3rd time is a charm....3rd amp works!!! Now I am trying to absorb all this info you guysd have offered so kindly and I was going to set the crossover on the speakers at 60Htz and the sub at?? Here are the specs on the sub:

Frequency response os 18-100HTZ

I have learned more in this thread then I have in about 2 months LOL!!

[Heritage_Head]

Every set up is different so the best thing to do is try

different set ups and see what sounds best. Keep in mind 20-20,000 Hz is a huge

band so 20-80 Hz is a tiny part even though it’s the lowest and hardest part. The

value to me of a good floor standing speaker isn’t to just go lower than a

smaller speaker. They create large clean sound effortlessly compared to a smaller

bookshelf regardless if there is a sub involved (quality of speakers being

equal). A small box will always be working harder to keep up with a bigger speaker,

and not for just 20-80 Hz. So for a bose cube to output 85dbs (even with a subs

help under 80 hz) it will be working way harder than a rf-82 would set up the

same way.

[JasonJCarney]

Play with it... But with those specs I would try 80hz first

[robc1976]

Play with it... But with those specs I would try 80hz first

80Htz for the sub or for the speakers and sub.

[robc1976]

Play with it... But with those specs I would try 80hz first

80Htz for the sub or for the speakers and sub.

I thought yoi had said 50Htz for the speakers earlier? My reciever goes in multiples of 10 so I can do 40,50,60, ect.