Moderators Youthman Posted July 28, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 28, 2011 But if you like to listen to stuff at about 100 watts or more average per channel If I've done my math correctly (Bill knows how good I am at math LOL), my RF-83's will produce 121db with 100 watts of true power. 121db average listening will surely make you deaf. 1 watt = 100db 2 watt = 103db 4 watt = 106db 8 watt = 109db 16 watt = 112db 32 watt = 115db 64 watt = 118db 128 watt = 121db Now that is only one speaker being driven. When you add more drivers and speakers, I believe the db increases even higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 For the money I spent, I will take the minor bump in audio quality, but for me the fact that my Onkyo may run cooler/more efficiently is the real benefit..at least for my money. I'm with you on this one. I can't get over how hot my Onkyo gets. I had the same with the TX SR 702; but it never failed or even showed a hiccup. I have my PC in close proximity to my receiver (streaming movies to the 52" LCD). I ran a 120mm PC fan externally running off of the PCs power supply. I left it on top of the Onkyo. (I still have it on top of the HK). It was never so hot it could burn you after I started doing this........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonJCarney Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Dont take this the wrong way reference head but I don't think you are listening at levels that require 200 watts of power. This is a quote from the OSHA standards: OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) has developed recommendations for how much noise is permissible in the workplace and how long one can work in various levels of noise. For ears that are not protected by ear plugs, ear muffs, noise defenders, etc., the allowed exposure time decreases by one-half for each 5 dB. increase in the average noise level present. "Exposure is limited to 8 hours at 90 dB., 4 hours at 95 dB., and 2 hours at 100 dB. The highest permissible noise exposure for the unprotected ear is 115 dB. for 15 minutes/day. Any noise above 140 dB. is not permitted...individual hearing protectors are required when noise averages more than 90dB during an 8 hour day." Based on the numbers youthman put up then if you were using even 100 watts of actual power then you would be damaging your ears. I think maybe people drop $800-$900 on an amp and want to justify the expense. If your room is huge and your 40 feet from the speaker then the extra wattage may actually mean something. But there isn't a person on this forum sitting more than 15 feet from their speakers. Not saying you specifically but in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 But if you like to listen to stuff at about 100 watts or more average per channel If I've done my math correctly (Bill knows how good I am at math LOL), my RF-83's will produce 121db with 100 watts of true power. 121db average listening will surely make you deaf. 1 watt = 100db 2 watt = 103db 4 watt = 106db 8 watt = 109db 16 watt = 112db 32 watt = 115db 64 watt = 118db 128 watt = 121db Now that is only one speaker being driven. When you add more drivers and speakers, I believe the db increases even higher. The rf-83 is 100db at 1 watt measured from 1 meter away (only little more than 3ft). You probably sit way further away than 1 meter. They would probably measure about 80-85db from 10ft away (if that). That’s with just the rf-83 going mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted July 29, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2011 I sit 11ft from my speakers. Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't think that it would go from 121db to 80db in 7ft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Dont take this the wrong way reference head but I don't think you are listening at levels that require 200 watts of power. This is a quote from the OSHA standards: OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) has developed recommendations for how much noise is permissible in the workplace and how long one can work in various levels of noise. For ears that are not protected by ear plugs, ear muffs, noise defenders, etc., the allowed exposure time decreases by one-half for each 5 dB. increase in the average noise level present. "Exposure is limited to 8 hours at 90 dB., 4 hours at 95 dB., and 2 hours at 100 dB. The highest permissible noise exposure for the unprotected ear is 115 dB. for 15 minutes/day. Any noise above 140 dB. is not permitted...individual hearing protectors are required when noise averages more than 90dB during an 8 hour day." Based on the numbers youthman put up then if you were using even 100 watts of actual power then you would be damaging your ears. I think maybe people drop $800-$900 on an amp and want to justify the expense. If your room is huge and your 40 feet from the speaker then the extra wattage may actually mean something. But there isn't a person on this forum sitting more than 15 feet from their speakers. Not saying you specifically but in general. Yes there are moments in movies that get really loud but they normally only last a few minutes. Then it’s followed by long stretches of much quitter dialog and back ground music. So if you watch a 2 hour movie you might get 15min of spots that hit 110-115db. Then it’s back to around 80-85db. So it’s not like you’re getting hit nonstop with 115db that would cause ear damage. You could hit those numbers with an avr but 110-115db with an avr and you would be pushing that thing to its limit. Plus youths numbers are wrong (sorry youth) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I sit 11ft from my speakers. Maybe I'm wrong but I wouldn't think that it would go from 121db to 80db in 7ft. No it would go from 100db to 80-85db at 1 watt from one meter. Get a db meter out and check I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Turn up your test signal tell you have a 100db from 3 feet away (1 watt 1 meter). Then go back to 11-12’ away (my measurements). And you will see that 100db drop to around 80-85db depending on room size and acoustics that can vary a lot but you get my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted July 29, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2011 Will have to check that out. Never would have guessed it dropping that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted July 29, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2011 Plus youths numbers are wrong (sorry youth) Stink!!! Did I do it again? Was my math wrong on my wattage to db conversion chart or on my statement about not thinking it would drop db so much from 3ft to 11ft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Will have to check that out. Never would have guessed it dropping that much. Plus they don’t rate the sensitivity with a full 20-20,000 Hz signal. Most ratings are only measured at 1 kHz. So when you’re running a full signal 1 watt isn’t going to come close to hitting 100db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 You were right about the increase of 3db every x 2 of power.[] Just not the starting point because of the distance and the way they (speaker manufactures) measure the sensitivity is different than real world applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted July 29, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2011 You were right about the increase of 3db every x 2 of power. Phew! At least my math was correct this time. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Lol [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluBitRates Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I think that having the front two or three channels running on amps with an onkyo 70x is an awesome way to go. As far as bi-amping goes i will tell you that i did this originally (had 5 originally) and got it to work fine but i think i only had it running a day or so and that was with my rf-82 not my rf-7ii so i cannot give you specifics on how i remember that sounding. You will get a bunch of power out of bi-amping two of these but i like the simplicity of just one amp per channel. I am glad you like them, i like them a lot except for the fact that they do not have a trigger. You may want to check those two capacitors inside the amps when you get the other pair, i was reading on polk forum about a member transaction that went bad where they got some ma-500s and the caps were leaking from the get go although they still produced sound. I think the simplicity of the design and good build quality will allow these amps to have a long life span if the caps do not leak (the caps looked great in the ones i sent you). If you have not already purchased the pair maybe look into get just 1 for the center channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Thanks! I will check the capacitors when they come in. I am strongly leaning towards running my front three channels with a single monoblock each, but will likely play around with it some. I was concerned about the trigger issue, but my surge protector has three switched outlets. I simply plug in my Onkyo to the "main" outlet and then my amps into the "switched" outlets and they power up and down with my avr. Works beautifully (but only for three amps). I will say that running the RF-82s on the monoblocks gives a distinct and obviously different sound (in a good way). There is slightly more detail, but the bass is significantly deeper and tighter. My wife even noticed, and she is the ultimate double-blind test subject as she could give a rats behind and would tell me if I had wasted my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluBitRates Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 yeah and it should increase the life expectancy on the onkyo. Good deal. Have you tried "pure direct" yet on the onkyo where the rf-82s are running in full band sound ?That is where you could really see that the 125 wpc in those marantz are enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 yeah and it should increase the life expectancy on the onkyo. Good deal. Have you tried "pure direct" yet on the onkyo where the rf-82s are running in full band sound ?That is where you could really see that the 125 wpc in those marantz are enough. Yes! That is where my wife was like, "WOW!" Rock music through pure direct was incredible. That was also why I chose to get additional amps. It just sounded too good to not add more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicSeeker Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Do you ever get hiss when you hookup external amps, the reason I ask is I have a yamaha dsp-a1 that I hooked up an external decoder using the back two surounds to add a rear speaker and had to use 3 ma-500's to drive them and I would get the dreaded hiss sound. I now have a yamaha rx-z11 with RF-7II'S for front and surrounds an RC-64II for a center KSP-S6 for rear (7.1) and KSP-S6's for front fill. Would it be worht my time to add power to the 4 RF'S and the center and would I get the hiss?Also would I benefit from another RF-7II for a center in place of the RC64II. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornfedksboy Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Mine hissed when they were on and the AVR was off. When both are powered up they are quiet and cool. [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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