GBShade684 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 So this is my frist time owning a nice set of speakers. I will admit I picked my speakers blindly because they looked pretty(RF-82's). I listened to them before I picked them up and I couldn't wipe the smile off my to save my life. Now I have these beautiful speakers and no receiver. I am going to pick up a cheap receiver(max $200) for the time being just to get them up and running. I have been doing a lot of reading on these forums. From what I have read I shouldn't be overly concerned with the output / channel so I am happy with 80-125 / channel. They have the ability to be bi-wired, so I guess I will do that. Looking for thoughts / help on the wiring. The guy I bought them from just ran 1 wire(pos and neg obviously) to the LF posts and then daisy chained to the HF posts. Would this be an acceptable bi-wiring method, of should I be attacking this problem with a different strategy. I am planning on using 16 gauge wire, since I will have 20 ft runs max(that's if I bring the wire through the floor and into the basement). Any thoughts on this? Also any receiver ideas? I have attached an amazing picture of my currently living room. The stars are where I plan on putting the speakers. Everything is carpeted minus the magenta spray paint area, that's the kitchen with laminate hardwood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBShade684 Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Should have mentioned the red diamonds are bookshelfs and orange rectangles are couches. Green is the fireplace, above that is my mounted 46" lcd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Biwiring is not that big of a deal with speakers that don't draw a lot of power. After you get a reciever experiment with speaker and listening chair positions. Try the speakers against the wall and pulled out from the wall, try varying the spacing between the speakers and let your ears tell you what's best. Most of all, have fun doing doing it, and welcome to the madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted August 12, 2011 Moderators Share Posted August 12, 2011 Welcome Don't rule out a used receiver, even vintage, and don't worry to much about the wpc, even 30 wpc will be loud. You can sometimes get a much better receiver used for the same price. Look in the garage sale section or post a WTB in the general section, someone may have something they are willing to sell ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFord Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Welcome to the forums. What exactly did you get, two RF82 speakers? If so do you plan on using them for movies? Movies really kind of like at least 5.1, left, center, right, two in the rear as surrounds, and a subwoofer. +1 on getting a nice basic used reciever to get your feet wet, power won't be a factor, look for a good brand, but keep it cheap once you know what you like, it will likely be replaced. Do pay attention to what type of connections you need, but you might want to discuss those here so we can go over options. Biwiring is IMHO an amazing invention by some audio salesperson to sell twice as much expensive wire, skip it and just hand the saleman some money if you feel the need. Home Depot type stores have a decent quality wire for a fair price, or see if the guy selling the used reciever doesn't have a box of wire too. If at some point you decide wire matters, nothing lost as likely only some "special brand/type" will be "the wire" so no matter what you get now you would be buying new stuff. Fireplace isn't my favorite location for speakers, but you have to live with the room you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBShade684 Posted August 12, 2011 Author Share Posted August 12, 2011 Thanks for the information everyone. I did get two RF-82's. Guy was moving and they were on craigslist for what a new single costs, so I decided to jump. I do have a free receiver coming my way from my in-laws. It's a bit older with no HDMI, so I was shopping around for one with HDMI to simplify things. I may wait it out and just work with the free receiver and run HDMI to the TV then audio out from there to the receiver. Any issues there? I will hold off on the bi-wiring. Just heard mixed opinions. I was looking at banana clips for the connectors on the wire. I have heard monoprice.com thrown around on here a lot. Checked it out, seemed like a good deal. WAY cheaper than BB. One day I will expand to 5.1(maybe 7.1/2?). Just moved to this house, it's a rental. I currently own two other houses. Market sucks, so my money mainly comes in and right back out. When the other two houses are gone, then I'll be in business! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Use the banana connectors if you plan on moving the speakers from time to time, otherwise, save the expense and just run bare wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Welcome to the Klipsch forums, we're glad you're here. Here is a Pioneer Receiver in your price range that will get you by, you'll want to upgrade it eventually.... Here is the Amazon Link -------> CLICK HERE Oh, I get my speaker wire at Home Depot, good stuff at a good price! [Y] Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBShade684 Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 After keeping my eye on some Pioneer and Denon receivers I pulled the trigger this morning. Got the VSX-520-K slightly used for a pretty good price. Should have it hooked up and running by the end of next week. I'll post pictures then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFord Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 HDMI directly to the display works fine. Switching stuff inside the receiver is fine too, but with 3 flavors of HDMI currently floating around (video, video plus sound, and now 3d) I would hook it directly to the display. I would also skip the cost of the banana plugs and use the bare wires. When you get a subwoofer you will wonder how you ever got along without one, and surround speakers can be most anything you find of a reasonable size to fit your room. Sub and surrounds even cheap ones enhance movie watching a LOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 After keeping my eye on some Pioneer and Denon receivers I pulled the trigger this morning. Got the VSX-520-K slightly used for a pretty good price. Should have it hooked up and running by the end of next week. I'll post pictures then... That's great to hear, GBShade! [<)] It will get you started, but won't blow you out of the room. Download the manual now and read it over a couple of times, to get familiar with it, before the receiver arrives. You will probably want to set the front speakers to small, even know you don't have a Sub-woofer yet, it will take the "Bass Load" off of the amp and give you better sound in the Mids and Highs. Keep us posted and remember, we don't believe in Stupid Questions, just stupid people who don't ask questions. So, ask away if you have any! We're lookin' forward to the pictures, Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 It's a bit older with no HDMI, so I was shopping around for one with HDMI to simplify things. I may wait it out and just work with the free receiver and run HDMI to the TV then audio out from there to the receiver. Any issues there? I know you ordered a new reciever, but this would also work fine. I admit to only running two channel out of my tv, but I am more of a two channel music kind of guy. My wife is really ok with just the speakers in the tv.Currently have the tv audio going through a pair of Heresy II speakers via an K/K430. Music is through 2A3 SET amps and La Scalas. It works for us. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBShade684 Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 Dennie - taking your advice...just downloaded the manual going to give it a read today while the wife is out shopping. What do you mean by setting the front speakers to small? Is that adjusting the frequency response, or is it limiting the power delievered @ said frequencies? I have trouble understanding these things sometimes due to the fact that I am an engineer. Sometimes I try to make things too technical and end up confusing myself. I do want a nice bass response, that's why I went with the 82's over the 62's or 52's. Mistake on my part? Maybe should have gone with 62's and a sub? Bruce - thanks for the input. I thought that might be the case, but I like to keep things clean. That is the main reason I went with the newer receiver with HDMI. Less cables for me ='s less hassles. Any thoughts on cable management? I am going to keep my power cords separated from my audio wires. Don't want to introduce any additional noise into the system. Any other things I should be thinking about here? Again thanks for all the help. I really enjoy learning about this stuff(I can see why Don calls it Madness!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechnut Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Setting your speakers to "small" limits the frequencies that are sent to your speakers and if you have a sub, redirects those signals to the sub. Goes from full range (large) to a more limited range (small). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBShade684 Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 From reading the manual, the default cross over is set to 100Hz. The listed range for my RF82's is 33Hz to 23kHz. So should I set the default to 33Hz, effectly eliminating anything below 33Hz(because I do not have a sub)? Am I okay setting the speakers to small(defaulting Sub to yes) and not having a sub? I would assume yes but I like to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 From reading the manual, the default cross over is set to 100Hz. The listed range for my RF82's is 33Hz to 23kHz. So should I set the default to 33Hz, effectly eliminating anything below 33Hz(because I do not have a sub)? Am I okay setting the speakers to small(defaulting Sub to yes) and not having a sub? I would assume yes but I like to be sure. Hey GBShade, I'm glad you're getting a jump on things. I've always downloaded the manual, while waiting for shipment. That way, when it gets here, you already know the basics! Hum, maybe you're going to have to set the speakers to large, or you'll miss some of the lower bass that the RF82's can produce. Sorry, I forgot you didn't have a sub. Just know that this will be harder for the amp to drive, causing distortion/clipping at a lower volume. In other words, you won't be able to turn it up as loud. No big deal. When you do have money to spend, the addition of a "powered" subwoofer will cover the lower freqs. and allow the pioneer to handle the mids and highs more easily. By setting the speakers to large, you bypass the crossover in the Pioneer. I think the lowest setting is 100hz and when you do add a subwoofer, that is the setting you'll use, which will be fine. Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBShade684 Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 Dennie, I've been wondering and reading about clipping a lot. That was definitely a concern of mine and something I put a lot of thought into before going ahead and purchasing the receiver. The way I understand it, clipping is a result of overdriving your receiver, causing partial or full square waves as compared to a nice sine wave. That I get, as well as the lack of movement by the driver under such circumstances. My question is when would this occur? I couldn't seem to nail down a definitive answer here. I was assuming that if I turned it up past 0 dB, that I would be entering dangerous territory, but that was just an assumption. Is there anyway to know for sure, or at least have a good approximation of when clipping will occur? I assumed with only 2 speakers that the receiver would be able to handle the load a little better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Dennie, I've been wondering and reading about clipping a lot. That was definitely a concern of mine and something I put a lot of thought into before going ahead and purchasing the receiver. The way I understand it, clipping is a result of overdriving your receiver, causing partial or full square waves as compared to a nice sine wave. That I get, as well as the lack of movement by the driver under such circumstances. My question is when would this occur? I couldn't seem to nail down a definitive answer here. I was assuming that if I turned it up past 0 dB, that I would be entering dangerous territory, but that was just an assumption. Is there anyway to know for sure, or at least have a good approximation of when clipping will occur? I assumed with only 2 speakers that the receiver would be able to handle the load a little better... Hey GB, if I may call you that. This is from Wiki: Overview of clipping When an amplifier is pushed to create a signal with more power than its power supply can produce, it will amplify the signal only up to its maximum capacity, at which point the signal can be amplified no further. As the signal simply "cuts" or "clips" at the maximum capacity of the amplifier, the signal is said to be "clipping". The extra signal which is beyond the capability of the amplifier is simply cut off, resulting in a sine wave becoming a distorted square-wave-type waveform. Now, most amps/receivers will shut down when "clipping" is detected and go into "Protection Mode". I think your Pioneer will do that, but I have not read the manual. My "Pioneer Elite" does. It takes more power from the amp to reproduce lower frequencies than it does for high and mids. So, when asking a "lower end" receiver to play all frequencies loud, you will begin to push the limits of that amplifier. This is why adding a "Powered" (meaning it has it's own amp" subwoofer, to reproduce the low end, it eases the load on the "receiver" and allows it to play louder, before clipping. When will Clipping occur? Well, your right. With only two speakers playing, it will clip at a higher volume, than if you were running 5 or 7 speakers. But there is no way to know at what point clipping will occur. If you listen at moderate volumes, in the room you posted, you should be fine. Fortunately, Klipsch speakers are easier than a lot of other speakers to power. I hope this helps and if it dosen't (would not be the first time LOL) keep asking questions. [] Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRFL Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Dennie, I've been wondering and reading about clipping a lot. That was definitely a concern of mine and something I put a lot of thought into before going ahead and purchasing the receiver. The way I understand it, clipping is a result of overdriving your receiver, causing partial or full square waves as compared to a nice sine wave. That I get, as well as the lack of movement by the driver under such circumstances. My question is when would this occur? I couldn't seem to nail down a definitive answer here. I was assuming that if I turned it up past 0 dB, that I would be entering dangerous territory, but that was just an assumption. Is there anyway to know for sure, or at least have a good approximation of when clipping will occur? I assumed with only 2 speakers that the receiver would be able to handle the load a little better... Hey GB, if I may call you that. This is from Wiki: Overview of clipping When an amplifier is pushed to create a signal with more power than its power supply can produce, it will amplify the signal only up to its maximum capacity, at which point the signal can be amplified no further. As the signal simply "cuts" or "clips" at the maximum capacity of the amplifier, the signal is said to be "clipping". The extra signal which is beyond the capability of the amplifier is simply cut off, resulting in a sine wave becoming a distorted square-wave-type waveform. Now, most amps/receivers will shut down when "clipping" is detected and go into "Protection Mode". I think your Pioneer will do that, but I have not read the manual. My "Pioneer Elite" does. It takes more power from the amp to reproduce lower frequencies than it does for high and mids. So, when asking a "lower end" receiver to play all frequencies loud, you will begin to push the limits of that amplifier. This is why adding a "Powered" (meaning it has it's own amp" subwoofer, to reproduce the low end, it eases the load on the "receiver" and allows it to play louder, before clipping. When will Clipping occur? Well, your right. With only two speakers playing, it will clip at a higher volume, than if you were running 5 or 7 speakers. But there is no way to know at what point clipping will occur. If you listen at moderate volumes, in the room you posted, you should be fine. Fortunately, Klipsch speakers are easier than a lot of other speakers to power. I hope this helps and if it dosen't (would not be the first time LOL) keep asking questions. Dennie Be very careful about clipping the amplifier. Not all amplifiers will shut down or provide protection from clipping. If you notice a change in the clarity of the music as you turn up the volume, then you are likely to be clipping the amp. The square wave that results is extremely detrimental to the speakers and it is possible to destroy a 100 watt speaker with a 50 watt amplifier if you clip it severely. The square wave resulting from clipping can extend the speaker cone to the extreme limit holding it there to cook for a moment and then extending it the other way holding it there to cook until it fails or you turn it down or the amp shuts down. Don't go there as the speaker performance can be degraded even if it does not totally fail. Parties are a potential time when damage the speakers occurs especially after a few beverages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Late to this thread....... You may wish to try "small" if the poineer lets you set the Xover at 40 hz. (May or may not) That way, you get almost all of the low frequency; without trying to play the 32hz-20hz stuff your speakers can't. Once you become familiar with the receiver menus; this change will take a few minutes to try and a few more to put back to compare. Play something you are very familiar with; (I like to use Tusk by Fleetwood Mac).... so you can concentrate on the subtle differences. Good Luck; and welcome to the Klipsch Madness.......... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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