New Receiver vs. Amp... opinions please

[NCT]

OK, i have a RC52 center, RF62 fronts and rs42 surrounds along with a sub12 sw. My receiver is a hand me down HK AVR330. My receiver does not have any HDMI connections at all, and my tv is a 50" samsung lcd. I cant connect my receiver to my tv because the receiver not being able to connect via hdmi, thus not giving me much adjustability with the on screen osd.

Next question is how much power could my speakers handle as i see all the time people pushing more rms than the speaker is rated. And could someone explain to me the whole amp vs, biamping thin. Yes I am a HT noob and it took me a couple years to save for the speakers and just want to get the best out of what I have (speakers), Can anyone reccomend a receiver for my system, as the watts per channel is kind of above me right now, as i am still learning about everything.

Thanks all for your help.

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-AVR330-7-1-Channel-Receiver/dp/B0000D8HRE

[StephenM]

How much money are you looking to spend? Any special features that you need/want? Do you care about 3D?

[NCT]

3D is a maybe, I really dont care all that much about it. As far as how much to spend, under 1,000.

[StephenM]

If 3D isn't a big concern, this would be my bet:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXNR3007/Onkyo-TX-NR3007-THX-Ultra2-Plus-140w-x-9.2-Network-Receiver/1.html

Get a 5 year extended warranty if you're worried about buying factory reconditioned, and you'll still have a THX Ultra II receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT for under a grand. Probably overkill, but minor detail.

[NCT]

do myspeakers have a need for an amp? My question is this...would it be better for me to buy a cheaper receiver and get an amp to get the power? Lets say i was to purchase a 65w per channel receiver with all the new sound formays and get a Crown XTi-4000. would that be too much for my system? I have found that amp for 300 new in the box.

[Fish]

How many channels on the crown? Is this for 2ch or 5.1?For starters if you like the HK you ain't likely to be happy with an Onkyo or Yamaha or Denon or most of the usual non musical(my very well informed opinion) avrs. Get an HK and an amp if you think you need it, although 65/75 HK watts would be my choice over any other mass market avr of any power rating.

[StephenM]

do myspeakers have a need for an amp?

I should doubt it with the receiver I posted. I'd expect even a THX Select 2 receiver would adequately drive your speakers to high volumes, let alone an Ultra 2.

[StephenM]

For starters if you like the HK you ain't likely to be happy with an Onkyo or Yamaha or Denon or most of the usual non musical(my very well informed opinion) avrs.

I own and enjoy a HK receiver (have owned a couple actually including a nice 80WPC stereo receiver that I gave to my sister in law) and I'm happy with Onkyo too []

[NCT]

It is more for TV (football for me, Dancing w/ the stars for the wife) and movies than for music. And it is for 5.1.

almost forgot, is the new receiver gonna make everything sound that much better with the higher watts per channel and updated sound formats? ie watching movies and tv?

[StephenM]

is the new receiver gonna make everything sound that much better with the higher watts per channel and updated sound formats?

More watts in and of themselves won't change anything unless you happened to be pushing your old receiver into clipping. Audyssey MultEQ XT will probably make the biggest sonic impact. Support for newer surround formats will also yield dividends on blu-ray movies.

[Fish]

For starters if you like the HK you ain't likely to be happy with an Onkyo or Yamaha or Denon or most of the usual non musical(my very well informed opinion) avrs.

I own and enjoy a HK receiver (have owned a couple actually including a nice 80WPC stereo receiver that I gave to my sister in law) and I'm happy with Onkyo too

That's cool, do you use the Onkyo for critical music listening or just HT? I would love to hear your thoughts on the difference(if any) you perceive in the sound of HK vs Onkyo for music.That should help in advise of what to look for in an avr.

[elitedemo]

http://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR5005-Audio-Video-Receiver/dp/B003R7KMR4

in my opinion anything more than this is probably overkill and probably wont benefit you

dont get me wrong i love overkill but not on a heavy cost receiver

id flip a coin between the sr5005 and sr6005 but i think 5005 is a sweet spot for a receiver, use the spare cash on something more fruitful such as more speakers

[StephenM]

That's cool, do you use the Onkyo for critical music listening or just HT? I would love to hear your thoughts on the difference(if any) you perceive in the sound of HK vs Onkyo for music.That should help in advise of what to look for in an avr.

The Onkyo is in my basement system and gets used for music, movies, and everything else. The HK was its predecessor in that system, but is now in a bedroom system with a pair of bookshelf speakers.

In my main system, I can't claim to have noticed any significant difference when I compared the HK and the Onkyo (with Audyssey disabled in Pure Audio mode). One could say this speaks to the quality of the HK which was rated for half the power of the Onk, and less costly at retail pricing. Of course, with Audyssey engaged on the Onkyo, it's a whole different ballgame: significantly improved low end (even without the sub), more enveloping soundstage, etc.

[StephenM]

One other thing that might be worth noting: it appears with their newest lineup, HK is aiming to play the numbers game.

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=AVR%201565

Stereo Power (FTC) 70W per channel, two channels driven @ 8 ohms, 1kHz, <0.9% THD

and then there is

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=AVR%201650

Stereo Power (FTC) 95W per channel, two channels driven @ 8 ohms, 20Hz – 20kHz, <0.07% THD

Both entry level, 20lbs receivers. The second one is most interesting compared to the $900 AVR-3600 at 44 lbs

http://www.harmankardon.com/resources/Brands/harmankardon/Products/ProductRelatedDocuments/en-US/OwnersManual/AVR_3600_Owners_Manual_Eng.pdf

Stereo Mode, Continuous Average Power (FTC) 5 Watts per channel, 20Hz–20kHz, @ <0.07% THD, both channels driven into 8 ohms

Interesting stuff...and not in a good way.

Edit: Even the new "flagship" 3650 is rated at 110 WPC into 2 channels with 0.09% THD 2 channels driven, weighing in at 27.25lbs. Again, interesting next to the 44 pound 3600.

[Fish]

I suppose someday HK may get tired of being honest and losing sales?.I hope they don't change the sound as no other mass mrkt avr ,makes music,imo.I do find it interesting you think they sound the same? or the Onkyo(with signal altered in many ways) maybe better for music than HK, still...enjoy.

Just to be clear, do you critically listen to music on the Onkyo?

[Youthman]

I do find it interesting you think they sound the same? or the Onkyo(with signal altered in many ways) maybe better for music than HK

Yes, that wasn't my experience between Onkyo and HK. To me, I REALLY enjoyed 2ch listening with the older AVR55 vs the newer Onkyo TX-SR703. But that was my only comparison.

[ClaudeJ1]

do myspeakers have a need for an amp? My question is this...would it be better for me to buy a cheaper receiver and get an amp to get the power? Lets say i was to purchase a 65w per channel receiver with all the new sound formays and get a Crown XTi-4000. would that be too much for my system? I have found that amp for 300 new in the box.

I use a TX-SR-706. The new 708 is even better. At less than $600, Those integrated amps are fast, powerful, and noise free. Why would you want to have more power when you have Klipsch efficiency? Save you money and don't add the problems of external wiring. Onkyo rocks. I use mine with a Panasonic Blue Ray. The system automatically detects a CD and goes into 2.1 mode with the sub at normal levels. For movies, it's 5.1 with a 10 db sub boost automatically to meet Dolby/DTS specs when it detects and LFE channel..................all automatically.

I use literally Milliwatts on my horns. The only reason I use an external amp on my corner horns is because they are less efficient than the horns above 120 hz. My midbass, mid, and tweeter horns use the receiver's 100 Watt amps with tons of db of headroom. My corner K bass horns have only 15 watts on them, which is plenty. Goes against logic, I know but the sub amp was cheaper then inductors with a built in Xover (only $33 each at Parts Express). My coffee table sub has 200 Watts but I don't think I use more than 20 W on it at 18 hz.

Don't wast your time and money on separates.

[StephenM]

I suppose someday HK may get tired of being honest and losing sales? .I hope they don't change the sound as no other mass mrkt avr ,makes music,imo

I'm sure they're feeling the pinch. It's got to be hard to sell a 50wpc receiver for $500 when the other guys sell 100wpc receivers for the same money.

As far as the sound, I'm unsure how they could remove 16 pounds from the 36xx line, rate it for more power, and expect it to perform the same. But one can hope I guess. I can't say I'd expect the new "svelte" 27 pound model to perform better than the 55 pound Onkyo I linked to.

I do find it interesting you think they sound the same? or the Onkyo(with signal altered in many ways) maybe better for music than HK, still...enjoy.

I was actually unpleasantly surprised that the Onkyo (sans Audyssey) didn't do a better job than the HK given the retail cost differential between the two, the power on paper (100 vs 50 wpc), and the certified peak power headroom of the Onkyo (up to 625 watts - 12.5 amperes into a 4 ohm load). Of course, I paid less than half the retail price on my Onkyo and I had other uses for the HK, so I didn't sulk too much; and of course when I started listening with Audyssey, I was much happier. A purist might shun Audyssey, but it helps my system to deal with a number of issues. Suffice it to say, my listening space is rather live, and Audyssey seems to use that to create a coherent, enveloping sound field instead of the regular jumble. In addition, it did compensate for some dips and peaks in the bass response,yielding a much smoother response down low. Whatever advantages the HK could have had, Audyssey more than made up for IMO.

Just to be clear, do you critically listen to music on the Onkyo?

Yes indeed. Of course, the bedroom system holds its own due to a combination of favorable acoustics and very musical speakers. It was handily the winner for musical reproduction when the HK was driving the basement system and all that was up in the bedroom was a crumb dumb Insignia receiver. Now that the Onkyo is down in the basement with room correction, it's a bit tougher call.

[NCT]

Between these receivers which would be the best for my setup, In the near future I will be adding some Klipsch outdoor speakers to use on the dec for zone 2.

http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/productdetails.aspx?CatId=avreceivers&ProductId=SR6005

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=AVR%203650

http://usa.denon.com/us/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PCatId=AVSolutions%28DenonNA%29&CatId=2011IncommandReceivers%28DenonNA%29&PId=AVR2312CI%28DenonNA%29

http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR708&class=Receiver&p=s

[cornfedksboy]

The Onkyo 708 is a grear receiver. I use it as a pre/pro hybrid in my HT room with Marantz monoblocks on my front three. I am very pleased with the decoding and processing. The amps are quite sufficient when driving 5 speakers (but with 7 I think you need some extra oomph). I don't find the receiver to be patciularly musical, espescially in stereo with 2-way Klipsch Reference towers, however, the various music codecs for 5.1/7.1 music do wonders. This little beast does get HOT!

I'm a big fan of H/K for 2-channel music! They have a more natural sound. Also, really enjoy the Marantz sound with Klipsch speakers. I've not ownded either processor.