edster00 Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 Steve P, You sure look nice in that tie ! This message has been edited by edster00 on 05-15-2002 at 03:04 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 I agree with you, edster, but I think his straight razor might be a little too sharp... ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 15, 2002 Share Posted May 15, 2002 Steve's outfit is incomplete...notice the pen in white shirt pocket with NO VINYL POCKET PROTECTOR! , nice power tie tho! Oh yeah, if ya look at the pic in Chris Robinson's post...then look at the pic of the k-horn in its false corner, you will notice that even with 4' sides in that false corner, the sides do not extend past the front of the k-horn!! Actually...anything past 4' is just wasted lumber, since it doesn't improve the bass response any. Also, when building the 2x4 framework on that false corner assembly, it helps some to install some horizontal cross-braces centered between each vertical 2x4 (like what ya see in a stud house that they call "fire-stops". Don't forget to suff some fiberglass batting between those 2x4s before sealing up those false corner walls either. Personally, I would use glue and screws when building the framework...adds stiffness to the framework. Although the false corner is free-standing and has the weight to keep it in position (especially if ya use good ole heavy southern yellow pine instead of fir, white pine, or western cedar 2x4s)...it never hurts to add some more weight inside of it if it is not to be moved (especially if it will sit on carpet)...such as bags of lead shot or sand between each vertical 2x4....something to consider...or it can be anchored to floor if it doesn't need to be moved. I have seen some of these false corners with a plywood floor section over a 2x4 framework solidly added to them...may get more bass projection that way. Just a few thoughts on the false corner thing You can always do what Steve did with his false corners, but that forces you to move your couch farther back...and still leaves the sweet spot for the k-horns way up front near them due to the narrowness of that room...I still think the best bet is to take false corners, and angle the k-horns and corners outward some to extend your sweet spot farther out into the room...it will add some separation too...up to you, tho! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 05-15-2002 at 06:16 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschorn Cretin Posted May 16, 2002 Author Share Posted May 16, 2002 Well guys, your info has been more than appreciated. The pics were very useful. However, my wife isn't to keen on me redoing the room just yet. She's still miffed I left her for a weekend for "just speakers." The false wall will have to wait. Regards, John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 I have about settled on a contractor and I am ready to finish my basememt 2 channel room. The dimensions are going to be ~14' x 24' and the Khorns have to go on one of the short walls. My dilema is if I place the Khorns tight in the corner my sweet spot will be too far forward in the room. I can either build false corners at an angle to the real walls which will allow the speakers to be angled into the room and move the sweet spot back, but this approach will not allow 4' extension of the false walls. What I am thinking of doing is building a 34" tall (as tall as the bass bin) "knee wall" to seal the bass bin against, and that is deep enough (maybe 6"-8") to allow the triangular top piece of the Khorn to miss the "real" walls and swivel the top horn section only out toward the sweet spot by removing 3 of the wing nuts. What the knee wall will do is actually move the Khorn out of the corner just enough to allow the horn section to be swiveled and miss the actual room wall. Any opinions on this approach? Does anyone have any idea of what I am trying (poorly I think) to describe? TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Edster00, "What I am thinking of doing is building a 34" tall (as tall as the bass bin) "knee wall" to seal the bass bin against, and that is deep enough (maybe 6"-8") to allow the triangular top piece of the Khorn to miss the "real" walls and swivel the top horn section only out toward the sweet spot by removing 3 of the wing nuts." Bingo! That's what I would do. I would consider making that wall in a wide U shape, panning from the left wall (4 feet forward from the inside left corner of the knee wall) then running the length of the back wall, then around the right corner 4 feet out on the right side. You could also look at this as a rectangle (4 feet inside depth by the outside width of the Khorns). Problem: The challenge will be designing the wall which provides the best sonic properties, certainly free of vibration and resonances. That wall will need to be SOLID. Basic Diagram: SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXS SXKoooooooooooASSORTED GEARooooooooooKXS wXoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooXS wXoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooXS wXoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooXS wXoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooXS X = knee wall K = Khorn w = window area S = Sheetrock O = room space 4 ft deep by the width of the room. It's basic, but I think you get the idea. Whaddaya think?? ------------------ Klipsch Cornwall II's (mains) Klipsch Academy (center channel) Klipsch Chorus (surrounds) Outlaw 750 Amplifier (5x165) H/K AVR 75 (used as pre/pro - will be upgraded soon) Bass Kit: 2 JBL 4638 LFE/Bass Reinforcement cabinets Crown CE 1000 amplifier Behringer Feedback Destroyer (Bass EQ) Sources: Pioneer DV-333 2 Aiwa ADF-850 3 head cassette decks General Instruments cable box Panasonic VHS PV-4459 Digital Audio Labs CardDeluxe (computer sound) f> c> s> This message has been edited by dndphishin on 05-16-2002 at 09:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Wow...dndphishin understood what I was trying to say! Except the knee wall won't extend past the sides of the speakers...I would have that few inch drop off where the knee wall ends and the real wall continues at the side of the speaker. The only other thing I changed is I am going to put the Khorns at the other end of the room so the window seat is not a factor. The 34" knee wall would take up too much space and hide too much of the window space at that end of the room. I am considering putting that 'lil JBL 4638 in the window seat if it will fit! This message has been edited by edster00 on 05-16-2002 at 09:39 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 The other end of the room would work well! I hope your window is solid, Ed. I know that it's new, but my JBL's rattle my windows if they are not completely closed and locked. That JBL will keep up with your Khorns - it's one serious unit. I'm using 2 of them as LFE in my setup, and they stomp! Big "whoa" factor You'll need some EQ and a large solid state "brutus" to get it going. For more on this, look at my reviews in Powered Subwoofers (if you haven't already). I'll be curious to see how you get along with it. BTW, are you using it as LFE in HT downstairs, or just as reinforcement for the 2 channel setup, or both? ------------------ Klipsch Cornwall II's (mains) Klipsch Academy (center channel) Klipsch Chorus (surrounds) Outlaw 750 Amplifier (5x165) H/K AVR 75 (used as pre/pro - will be upgraded soon) Bass Kit: 2 JBL 4638 LFE/Bass Reinforcement cabinets Crown CE 1000 amplifier Behringer Feedback Destroyer (Bass EQ) Sources: Pioneer DV-333 2 Aiwa ADF-850 3 head cassette decks General Instruments cable box Panasonic VHS PV-4459 Digital Audio Labs CardDeluxe (computer sound) f> c> s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 16, 2002 Share Posted May 16, 2002 Edster, You don't have to have 4' extension PAST the false corners, just 4' FROM the corner! The false corners themselves provide that 4'! I would suggest building the False Corners FIRST...as a matter of fact, since this room is a dedicated sound room, I would also suggest that the first 4' out from the wall the k-horns will be at be floored with hardwood flooring...4'x14' of pre-finished hardwood flooring, properly installed, will not be a major expense. And if you build those false corners as in the above "dope from hope" sheet provided, and apply some beaded birch panelling to the inside of the false corners (glued and nailed over the plywood), OR pick out some nicely figured birch plywood for the inside of the corners, with nice trim and such, stain it the color you want, use some satin urethane finish(two coats is fine...light sanding after first "sealer" coat with 240 grit to smooth the surface) on it, and they will be a beautiful addition to the room. If you go with the hardwood flooring, then remove the gliders(little "feet") from the bottom of the k-horns, apply a very small(1/8" diameter) continuous(no gaps) bead of silicone around the perimeter of bottom of the k-horns, about an inch inside the edges...then apply concentrically smaller continuous(no gaps) beads inside of this bead about two inches apart from each other...til you get to the center of the bottom of the cabinet, leaving an open space about 2"....just picture a triangular dartboard...understand? Do this on the bottom of both bass horn cabinets. It is important that the wood on the bottom of the bass woofer is clean...a light sanding with 80 grit will make it clean enough for the silicone to stick well. Let the silicone beads set up for a day or two before turning the cabinets right side up and then just set them into the false corners tightly on top of that hardwood flooring, being careful not to peal off any of the beads (in other words don't SLIDE them in, just SET them in)...you will be amazed at the difference this makes...literally allows the weight of the k-horn to seal the woofers to the floor there and the warmth of the bass added to the clarity of the bass horns will very much be noticeable!! It works kinda like having a rubber o-ring seal to that hardwood floor...and is well worth the extra time and effort! When you do this, and listen to your k-horns....then go to another persons stereo room and listen to their k-horns sitting on a carpeted floor on their gliders, you will know you did the right thing!! Trust me on that!! This way, with the false corners, you can position the entire speaker towards the sweet spot instead of just the mid-high housing...it will look better and you get those bass soundwaves coming right at you!! And...the expense is not a great deal! Hope this helps you some! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 05-16-2002 at 10:16 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Phillips Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 I'll be more careful with the razor in the future. Big change to go from T-shirt and jeans to dress pants,shirt and tie, . While my solution worked for me at the time, I do plan on some changes when I find a new home up here in Indy. If I look long enough maybe I'll find the "right"room. My wife has full control over how the rest of the house will be laid out,the livingroom or family room is mine. The one thing I was going for was for nothing to block the path and that was the built in approach.A flat wall for the Klipschorns to sing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 Steve P., PWK used to have on a big sign in his office the following quote from Thoreau: "Beware all enterprises that require new clothes." Wonder what happened to that concept? I can just see the techs in R&D up there in Indy wearing a pair of dress slacks and nice shirt while working with polymer resins and sawdust and wood all day....hmmmmmm...hope they get a really good clothing allowance!! ------------------ If you want to send a private message, or have already done so, be aware I have not as yet been able to retrieve them. Send e-maill instead, please...just note Klipsch forum in the heading so it doesn't get deleted. This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 05-17-2002 at 01:46 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 17, 2002 Share Posted May 17, 2002 HDBRbuilder, as I understand it, well built false walls provide all the initial four feet of wall surface that K-Horns need. But, I noted your suggestion of hardwood beneath the K-Horns as well. So, in my next Music System installation coming later this year, would it be a good idea to build a solid three-sided hard wood corner and Silicone seal the K-Horn into it. Theoretically, this could create an idealized envelope that could (with great effort) be moved to create idealized positioning for a broader sweetspot. The idea was prompted by looking at Q-Man's use of false walls to create space for his Front Effects speakers outside of the "corner". Would the "false floor" be adequate if it extended just as far past the cabinet as the "false walls" extend. Also, what would the effect likely be if the false walls and base were sand filled rather than insulation filled? ...Other than being very heavy, of course. -HornED PS: Sorry my cell phone batteries ran out. Later. ED This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-17-2002 at 04:54 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heiney Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 I have been trying to get a copy of the spec sheet re room size, placement, and false corners. Any help appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Steve P, I guess I need new glasses. I do not see a little house, "search", or even "PM" anywhere on this page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 PM is done with the Msg User button. Search is made with the Search the Klipsch Forums space at the top of the page. It'll go to a more advanced search if you just hit the Search button. I think the little house icon disappeared when the forum layout changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I can't see pictures or links to anything! Where are the pictures of Klipschorn Cretin's setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 I think all the pictures from the old forum got lost in the transition to the new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted December 17, 2002 Share Posted December 17, 2002 Doh! The new forum gets me again. I thought this was a new(er) thread, not a resurrected one from last May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornwaller Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Hello and Ho Ho Ho!! These speaker placement and build specs. are very interesting to say the least! I am trying to buy a pair of Khorns and this discussion has caused me to change my plans somewhat....before I purchase them I now intend to buy a house suited for them...or even possibly build a house around them for optimum placement of the house(not the speakers)....A HA HA HA AND A HO HO HO! Seriously though, if you want to see a full blown floor-wall horn extension go here: http://www.belgaudio.com/index.html and scroll down 'till you come to "The Quest For The Grail or the Horn at Euterpe's". Enjoy, Cornwaller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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