ZAKO Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 I was suprized to find that you coud place all the billions of people in TEXAS and they still would have the room to take a swing at each other,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 I was suprized to find that you coud place all the billions of people in TEXAS and they still would have the room to take a swing at each other,, And then what? I think I mentioned previously that vast areas of west Texas are cactus and salt cedar wastelands, all products of the past 70 years or so. I have a picture of my father in his working cowboy outfit made near Sonora about 1919. He is standing in grass that extends as far as the camera can see. Good luck finding any now. Having adequate space to take a swing at my neighbor isn't what I hope for my son and his children. I recently took him to a spot where my family has been going for nearly a 100 years. Until I was about 10, it was hardly changed from a 1000 years before. Now, it's been "preserved," but that preservation is a completely futile attempt and, in fact, a death knell. Usage is a 100 times what it was when I was young and will increase to the point in the next decade that reservations will be required. If you are getting a yellow alert that reservations will be required just to see what used to be "normal" environment you aren't paying attention. "Natural" areas and "reservations" are a contradiction in terms. If you don't believe it, just ask the Amerindians. The colonization of space isn't remotely as fanciful as the idea that "It will all be fine." It isn't about space cadets dreaming of galactic empire and warp drives...it's just about surviving and just maybe preserving some small part of this Eden for generations to come. If I see an upside it's in the resilience of nature. If we are, indeed, an evolutionary blind alley and are stillborn, the planet will regenerate. Plenty of time left in this cycle. Perhaps the next bunch will be a bit brighter than us. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted April 15, 2012 Share Posted April 15, 2012 WELLLLLLLL !!!!! WHEN OUR SUN IN ANOTHER TWO AND A HALF BILLION YEARS GOES INTO A SUPER NOVA,,,THATS SHURE THE HECK GONNA STING,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 WELLLLLLLL !!!!! WHEN OUR SUN IN ANOTHER TWO AND A HALF BILLION YEARS GOES INTO A SUPER NOVA,,,THATS SHURE THE HECK GONNA STING,,, Yes, as Louis XV said "It will last my time..." Let's just let our descendent deal with it. That's why I consider most recycling and conservation efforts silly and counter productive. The faster we deplete the remaining resources in our life boat, the sooner we are forced to row for land or perish. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Thats why i believe in renewable resources,,, Get a newer wife every 10 years..And let her do the rowing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Anyways, humans are lazy and won't get together to expand our horizons until it is felt necessary. A quick look throughout history shows this trend. The original space program was all about the cold war - the reason it stopped is because those threats subsided. The original "invaders" to America were fleeing religious persecution and famine. That may be the case with the Puritans founding America (and their influence is still obvious today), but when explorers came to Canada, they were looking for beavers, lots and lots of beavers, since the European beaver had been hunted to extinction. That attitude is still obvious today, since the beaver is the national animal of Canada. Before you misunderstand that, they wanted beaver fur to make hats. The preferred variety was "greasy beaver". It got that way by being worn fur-side-in by Native Canadians for some time before being sold. The natives were amused that Europeans would pay extra for sweaty furs that the natives were ready to throw away, but were happy to take the money and trade goods. European explorers also came for the vast quantities of fish, mostly cod, to be found near Newfoundland. It took 500 years to clean out that stock, but it's slowly recovering, ever since the cod fishery was shut down a decade ago. It's clearly time to look for space beavers, since Earth beavers are now protected and are no longer worn as hats. If we also find space cod out there, that would be good, too. Most of the preceding is historical fact. The last paragraph is just good ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Well the beavers are back,,Here at Mark Twain Lake,,Ive lost five big trees on my property,,Had to set out traps..and relocate them critters.. As far as SPACE BEAVERS...I dont think i,d want to mess with them,, They might want our heads for making hats.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 As far as SPACE BEAVERS...I dont think i,d want to mess with them,, They might want our heads for making hats.. You've got a point there, Maron. When going to other planets, we can't assume anything will be the same size it is on Earth. (Moderator edit to remove a less than family-friendly image.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 That's great.....![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I want to manifest a locally available pair of K402 with drivers for like "I'll be right over now" kind of money. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 ISLANDER,,,,, Thats great,, WOOD is one of my favorite Si Fi comic book artist...I have a hardbound collection of his art work...Where do you think she,s gonna do,, with that astronot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Well, obviously, he'd seen outer space, so she thought it was time he explored inner space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 I've gotten used to this type of discussion deteriorating into giggles and little green women, etc. I am not sure where it comes from but there has been a general degradation of our collective attitude towards national security, the economy, and being a force for the general improvement of the human condition here and abroad over my lifetime. When we went into enormous debt during WWII there was the sure and certain knowledge that our genious, technology, and clear vision of a better life for ourselves and our children would pay it off. I've not compared the relative amounts but I suspect our recent enormous flushes of money into the black holes of war, crooked banks, and obsolete industries starts to get into that elevated territory. This time, however, I'd been interested to know what is going to drive our economy to repay these debts. WWII left us with the finest technology, engineering, and industrial base the world has ever seen and was manned by a disciplined, dedicated workfore of the greatest generation. I started this with a picture based on existing science supporting a minimum return of 20 or more to one on tax dollars spent towards establishing bridgeheads for commerce, industry, science, and government in space based on the 19th century model of how the west was won. It's viable and draws on far greater minds than my own...as well as easily observable facts. Giggle...Heck, let's just have another beer and go over to Thebes Astronaut GoGo party... But I'd really like to know how we became fat, lazy, and apathetic. There will be a time in the not too distant future when "These colors CAN'T run." Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Dave, Until WE (As a collective) can clean up the absolute WASTE that is Capital Hill, I am afraid ALL of us are on thin Ice. I could go on for weeks about Lobbyist, Assistants to Assistants, the Pentagon, Corruption (Can you say Government Contractors...?) and a whole host of other areas that need major attention that are sucking the life and money out of the economy.. Until something is done at the TOP....The bottom will continue to suffer........and the Outlook...? It only gets worse from here with what we are proposing, as our future leadership..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Until WE (As a collective) can clean up the absolute WASTE that is Capital Hill, I am afraid ALL of us are on thin Ice. I could go on for weeks about Lobbyist, Assistants to Assistants, the Pentagon, Corruption (Can you say Government Contractors...?) and a whole host of other areas that need major attention that are sucking the life and money out of the economy.. Until something is done at the TOP....The bottom will continue to suffer........and the Outlook...? It only gets worse from here with what we are proposing, as our future leadership..... As this has never happened in human history your suggestion is far more fanciful than mine, IMHO. Let's say the budget for my suggestion is 1.4 trillion dollars. Ouch. Sounds like a lot. My friend, that's the interest on the national debt in the past three years. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panacea Engineering Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Dave, There is really NO difference, as we both stand about the same chance of seeing our dreams come to reality, in OUR lifetimes....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Dave, There is really NO difference, as we both stand about the same chance of seeing our dreams come to reality, in OUR lifetimes....... I know that, bud. I am not a vegetable, as my daughter used to say. I am not so much a space cadet as a patriot watching his country mortgage it's future with no ROI in sight. What I outlined isn't a starry eyed dream as much as a solid business plan I'd be more than happy to invest in. Recently I was reviewing NERVA. Forgotten by all but a few, but this engine was built and fully tested under simulated flight conditions in the early 70s before being cancelled by Nixon so he could fund the war on black people and all that really important stuff we've been doing since then (yes, I am bitter). 75,000 lbs thrust and 600 minutes duration, start and stop at will. Couple that ANCIENT technology with a cluster of VASIMR engines and you've cut the travel time to Mars down to WEEKS and made it less dangerous than a tour on a nuclear submarine. You use the NERVA to leave LEO and rapidly build a very high velocity, then VASIMR for in flight further acceleration and maintenance of light gravity. Use NERVA again both to decelerate rapidly on approach and reverse the procedure to return to Earth LEO. Piece of cake. Perhaps we could send Congress for a nice, long GSA catered event... [] It's tempting to say it's not rocket science as any high school kid can understand this stuff. Now, your dreams of cleaning up Washington? They make my fantasies look like a sure bet. At least with my plan we have the opportunity to get FAR, FAR away from that swamp. [] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted April 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 17, 2012 Fine line here, guys. Just a friendly reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Fine line here, guys. Just a friendly reminder. Please be specific, Sheriff. I'd prefer not to lose this thread if possible. You know me well enough to know I won't step across the line if I know precisely where it is and I am honestly seeing neither religion nor politics and the discussion, though spirited, has been quite civil. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 Fine line here, guys. Just a friendly reminder. Please be specific, Sheriff. I'd prefer not to lose this thread if possible. You know me well enough to know I won't step across the line if I know precisely where it is and I am honestly seeing neither religion nor politics and the discussion, though spirited, has been quite civil. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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