Carroll Shelby died today.

[formica]

Shelby was the Paul Klipsch of the U.S. auto industry. Even Carroll had his "Heresy".

Ha... the GLHS Dodge Omni.... [] Even if the 80's hasn't yet gotten the collectable attention as the 60-70's ... the good old GLHS (Goes Like Hell Some-more... seriously []) managed a 0-60 in only ±6.7 seconds, and a ±14.7 quarter-mile at ±94 mph... which was / is pretty d@mn good.

In an odd way, it follows the "muscle car" mentality quite well in stuffing as much horsepower as possible into a lightweight body, at an affordable price. The big difference though, was both those numbers (hp and lbs) are smaller.

RIP Carroll...

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Shelby was the Paul Klipsch of the U.S. auto industry. Even Carroll had his "Heresy".

I used to be a car guy. I remember this They made "mods" like removing the AC and floor insulation to reduce weight. The 1980's were dark times for car nuts.

If anyone is in Las Vegas and goes to the Speedway, check out the Raceday Cafe. Food is all made fresh and really good, and reasonably priced too. I ate a huge meal before a 450 mile motorcycle ride.

Actually the auto design disaster started in the later 70's.

1971 - compression drastically reduced and EGR added to Chevys. BY 1973, Air Injection, 5 MPH bumper (which were really heavy back then) and huge HP decreases occurred. 1970 was the last year for the "high HP" cars, and it just decreased from there. Later cat converters, etc, just kep getting worse. The late 70's was the low point, a Corvette had 205 HP in CA trim and weighed close to 2 tons.

Interestignly enough (and I do not follow this at all anymore) a new 6 cylinder Camaro, at 300 HP has more power than a 1967-69 SS 396 Camaro (rated at 325 flywheel HP back then, rated with with headers, not the stock manifolds).

[JJkizak]

Contrast that with the new Mustang engine/car of 622 horsepower, 15 mpg city, 25 mpg highway.

JJK

[Islander]

1971 - compression drastically reduced and EGR added to Chevys. BY 1973, Air Injection, 5 MPH bumper (which were really heavy back then) and huge HP decreases occurred. 1970 was the last year for the "high HP" cars, and it just decreased from there. Later cat converters, etc, just kep getting worse. The late 70's was the low point, a Corvette had 205 HP in CA trim and weighed close to 2 tons.

Interestignly enough (and I do not follow this at all anymore) a new 6 cylinder Camaro, at 300 HP has more power than a 1967-69 SS 396 Camaro (rated at 325 flywheel HP back then, rated with with headers, not the stock manifolds).

Those 1970s horsepower figures can be a bit confusing, because in 1971, American car companies stopped using SAE gross horsepower and switched to SAE net numbers, which were much more realistic.

Gross horsepower was measured with the engine on a test stand, with no mufflers, water pump, alternator, power steering pump, etc. Net horsepower was measured with the engine in the car, in actual driving configuration.

The Corvette base 350/5.7 engine was rated at 270 hp in 1970, but the 1971 rating was 210 hp, with no changes in the engine.

More info here: http://ateupwithmotor.com/automotive-terms/47-gross-versus-net-horsepower.html

[mustang guy]

[1971 - compression drastically reduced and EGR added to Chevys. BY 1973, Air Injection, 5 MPH bumper (which were really heavy back then) and huge HP decreases occurred. 1970 was the last year for the "high HP" cars, and it just decreased from there. Later cat converters, etc, just kep getting worse. The late 70's was the low point, a Corvette had 205 HP in CA trim and weighed close to 2 tons.

Interestignly enough (and I do not follow this at all anymore) a new 6 cylinder Camaro, at 300 HP has more power than a 1967-69 SS 396 Camaro (rated at 325 flywheel HP back then, rated with with headers, not the stock manifolds).

The big blocks like the chevy 396 and ford 428 were underrated. For the 396 which was rated for 325 hp, the true numbers are about 375 hp. As for the 428 Cobra Jet, which was rated at 335 hp, I can tell you from personal experience was much higher; it was more like 400 hp. The cars were rated with lower numbers for insurance purposes.

I currently have two 350's which are 400hp each, which pound for pound is better than the big blocks, but the big blocks get higher torque at a much lower RPM which makes them feel more powerful. The smallblocks get their HP at higher RPM's.

Oh, and I have a bone stock HiPo 289 (4.7 litre) 1965 Mustang which is rated at 271 horsepower, which I think is fairly accurate. Not as powereful per pound as the 3.6 litre 300 hp camaro motor, but not too shabby!

[tigerwoodKhorns]

1971 - compression drastically reduced and EGR added to Chevys. BY 1973, Air Injection, 5 MPH bumper (which were really heavy back then) and huge HP decreases occurred. 1970 was the last year for the "high HP" cars, and it just decreased from there. Later cat converters, etc, just kep getting worse. The late 70's was the low point, a Corvette had 205 HP in CA trim and weighed close to 2 tons.

Interestignly enough (and I do not follow this at all anymore) a new 6 cylinder Camaro, at 300 HP has more power than a 1967-69 SS 396 Camaro (rated at 325 flywheel HP back then, rated with with headers, not the stock manifolds).

Those 1970s horsepower figures can be a bit confusing, because in 1971, American car companies stopped using SAE gross horsepower and switched to SAE net numbers, which were much more realistic.

Gross horsepower was measured with the engine on a test stand, with no mufflers, water pump, alternator, power steering pump, etc. Net horsepower was measured with the engine in the car, in actual driving configuration.

The Corvette base 350/5.7 engine was rated at 270 hp in 1970, but the 1971 rating was 210 hp, with no changes in the engine.

More info here: http://ateupwithmotor.com/automotive-terms/47-gross-versus-net-horsepower.html

True, they did change the rarting method in 1971, but 1971 was also the year that they dropped compression significantly. From 11.0 to 9.0 and from 10.25 to 8.5. Heads went from 64 cc to 76 cc's.

Anyway, I don't follow this at all anymore, wasted about 15 years on muscle cars.

[mustang guy]

1971 - compression drastically reduced and EGR added to Chevys. BY 1973, Air Injection, 5 MPH bumper (which were really heavy back then) and huge HP decreases occurred. 1970 was the last year for the "high HP" cars, and it just decreased from there. Later cat converters, etc, just kep getting worse. The late 70's was the low point, a Corvette had 205 HP in CA trim and weighed close to 2 tons.

Interestignly enough (and I do not follow this at all anymore) a new 6 cylinder Camaro, at 300 HP has more power than a 1967-69 SS 396 Camaro (rated at 325 flywheel HP back then, rated with with headers, not the stock manifolds).

Those 1970s horsepower figures can be a bit confusing, because in 1971, American car companies stopped using SAE gross horsepower and switched to SAE net numbers, which were much more realistic.

Gross horsepower was measured with the engine on a test stand, with no mufflers, water pump, alternator, power steering pump, etc. Net horsepower was measured with the engine in the car, in actual driving configuration.

The Corvette base 350/5.7 engine was rated at 270 hp in 1970, but the 1971 rating was 210 hp, with no changes in the engine.

More info here: http://ateupwithmotor.com/automotive-terms/47-gross-versus-net-horsepower.html

True, they did change the rarting method in 1971, but 1971 was also the year that they dropped compression significantly. From 11.0 to 9.0 and from 10.25 to 8.5. Heads went from 64 cc to 76 cc's.

Anyway, I don't follow this at all anymore, wasted about 15 years on muscle cars.

Back in those days, the regular test leaded gasoline was 97 octane, and the high test was 103. Those cars were timed at idle at 6 deg btdc. Now the timing needs to be more like 30 deg btdc at idle for those same cars to prevent pre-ignition. Increasing the combustion chamber makes the engine work better with lower octane numbers.

I mix CAM2 racing fuel and high test 50/50 in these cars, because it would be heresy to retard them enough to get along at 97 octane. It would also rob at least 10% of the hp.

[Audio Android]

Wasted years on muscle cars........there is no such thing. I do keep hearing about those L88 427 corvettes were rated at like 430hp but was actually over 500hp, quite a bit over. 12.5 to 1 or 13.1 compression, forged con rods, pistons, crank, and CanAm spec aluminum heads......... just furious engines.

[JJkizak]

The only thing I have left from my 1967 L-88 engine is a 12.5 x 1 piston rod assembly flycut, shot peened, and balanced with full floating rod and spiral rod pin rings. Dynoed at 550 horsepower.

JJK

[Gilbert]

We lost an American gem....

Thankfully, we still have Obama.