ChrisK Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 I'm having so much fun with my tt, a thought popped in to my mind about reel to reel tape decks. Some questions: 1. Are reel to reel tape decks still being manufactured? If so, who's making them? 2. Who's are the best quality? Who's are the best buy? Where to look? 3. Can you easily record vinyl to tape? If so, generally speaking, how does it sound? How 'bout compared to cd? What equipment do you need to do this? 4. Last question...Am I totally losing it? Is this what OCD looks like? Why can't I just throw in some cd's and be done with it? Help Meeeeee....... ------------------ 2 channel Klipsch Cornwalls (1978) Cary CAD 300SEI amp (WE 300B's, various NOS 6SN7's) Arcam Alpha MCD cd player Accuphase T-101 Tuner Clearaudio Champion TT Rega RB250 ST arm (Six Stream wire and cable) Benz MicroAce Cartridge EAR Phono Stage HT Klipsch KG2.5 (front & rear) Klipsch KV2 (center) Klipsch SW12 (sub) Marantz SR7000 receiver Toshiba DTS DVD JVC SVHS VCR Sony Hi8 VCRs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Just about the only ones I've seen are made for professional recording; i.e.- somewhere between 4 and 32 track. The list can go on and on of manufacturers when the open reel was in it's hay-day. We had an Ampex V-300(?) (they invented magnetic tape) 6 head deck that wasn't too bad. A couple of my favorites were the Pioneer RT-909 and few from Teac. The sky's the limit for price. I'd do a google search for 'em and see what comes up. It's hard to say if open reel recordings sound as good as cd's. I do remember the open reel phase dwindeling fast when cd players were under $500. But there is still that durability issue with the medium. I can see, however, the sound of an audio(fool) I mean audiophile vinyl having a smoother warmth too it. Equipment needed?? You probably already have it! A simple home stereo with a tape loop, turntable and a pre-amp, integrated amp or receiver with a phono stage will do fine. Just remember to keep the fingers of small children out of the reels on rewind (ouch). A long time ago I used to do that with cassettes quite a bit. Record it on tape, play the hell out of it then made another tape when it goes south. All from an album with only one playing to it's history. Making compilations was my main interest to play in the car. Being 19 years old in 1984 was a lot of fun! ------------------ Tom's Money Pit This message has been edited by tblasing on 06-04-2002 at 08:31 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 From a European perspective reel to reel would probably mean Revox. On ebay one constantly encounters either the A77 or the newer B77. Quite a few years ago I had an A77 which I had picked up second or even third hand. It worked flawlessly for the time it stayed with me. Unfortunately there came a time when money was needed so the A77 passed on. I used the thing to record LPs (yes, we are talking about pre-CD days) and FM radio programmes. As far as I remember the sound was really outstanding, but the tapes were anything but cheap! Still, the look of those turning reels has got something and who knows, perhaps one day I'll get myself a Revox again.... Wolfram ------------------ System: 1973 Khorns with ALK crossovers REL Stadium II sub Cayin 743 D integrated tube amp (utilizing 300B tubes) McIntosh MR 77 McIntosh MCD 7007 Thorens 520S SME 3012-R Ortofon SPU Classic GM E Cyrus aEQ 7 phono stage with PSX-R power supply Yamaha CDR-HD 1000 CD Recorder Alternative amps: McIntosh MC 2105 McIntosh C29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 The RT-707 or 909 still pop up on Ebay every so often. These are/were great decks: well made, quaility components, and good sound quality. In terms of tape sound quality versus source sound quality, there is always some "loss" when a signal is transferred to tape, but the quality is still darn good. If you really want to go crazy, I've seen systems with external processors such as dbx processors that do a great job of offsetting some of the signal loss while expanding the dynamic range of the recording. ------------------ Mike - Livonia, MI Klipsch RF-3 L/R Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch RB-5 rears HSU Research VF-2 Sub Marantz SR-19EX receiver Marantz MM-9000 Amp NAD T550 DVD Adcom GCD 700 CD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Reel-to-reel tape decks....now here is something I know about, for sure!! There is an extensive list of high quality reel-to-reel decks. But this list is not so much based on brand name as on particular models manufactured by particular brands. Cassette decks had their tape running at 1-7/8 inches per second. The SLOWEST speed commonly found on reel-to-reel tape decks was twice the speed of that of a cassette deck, at 3-3/4 inches per second, resulting in the ability to transfer twice the fidelity from a source to a reel-to-reel as to a cassette...since twice as much tape passed over the recording heads in the same time!! Add to that the fact that the faster speed offered on these reel-to-reel decks was twice the speed of the slower speed, at 7-1/2 inches per second, and you now have the ability to record at FOUR times as much fidelity from a sound source!!! AND, if the reel-to-reel deck has the capability to record and playback 10-1/2 inch reels, it normally also had a 15 inch per second speed...which made it able to record at 8 TIMES THE FIDELITY of a cassette deck!!! Pretty impressive, huh? On a four-track reel-to-reel tape deck, a 2400-foot reel of tape on 7 inch reels would give one hour of play time at 7-1/2 inches per second in one direction for STEREO, and another hour when played in the opposite direction...giving 2 hours of music, total!!....and an 1800 foot reel of tape on 7 inch reels would give 45 minutes of play in each direction for a total of 1-1/2 hours of music!!!...and this would be at FOUR TIMES THE FIDELITY OF A CASSETTE!!! AND...If you opted for those same reel tapes recorded at 3-3/4 inches per second, you would have four hours or three hours of stereo music on one reel at JUST TWICE the fidelity of a cassette!!! Now, consider this...the 10-1/2 inch reels!!! 3600 feet of tape on them!!! Giving you 6 hours of stereo music at 3-3/4 inches per second, 3 hours of stereo music at 7-1/2 inches per second, or 1-1/2 hours of music at 15 inches per second!! Now, let's look at the downside of reel-to-reels from a technical viewpoint: 1. Tapes go to hell in a handbasket if they aren't maintained properly...must be rewound on occassion, etc!! Cigarette smoke in rooms where the tape is running will seriously degrade the tape over time. Nothing like a curious fly that ends up being squashed on a pinch roller to mess up a tape for good, either, not to mention making a serious mess on the tape heads and other parts like capstan rollers!! 2. Noise reduction needed: Dolby was designed for the slower speeds of cassettes, and only covered those particular frequencies that tape running "hiss" was heard at with tape running at only 1-7/8 inches per second!! But for reel-to-reels, you need DBX encoding to eliminate "tape hiss" at ANY SPEED you decide to use!! DBX expands, filters, and compresses ALL the frequencies, not just a few as in Dolby!! The tape needs to be recorded using DBX AND played back using it!! (But having that DBX unit for the tape deck will also allow you to play some of those wonderful DBX-encoded vinyl LPs out there...so, it is STILL very nice to have!!! Especially if you love rare and obscure classical music recordings on vinyl!!!) 3. Maintenance of the tape decks: You gotta keep those pinch rollers, and heads clean...and you occasionally have to demagnetize the heads!! Most of the decks are belt-driven, so you have to consider belt replacements every now and then and also have to ensure proper lubrication of bearings and such! Other things also apply depending on the type of deck!! 4. Grades of tapes available: Today, high quality reel tape is EXPENSIVE...and the tape needs to be high-output, low-noise variety for the best recording!! For 4-track home tape decks, not many manufacturers offer much variety anymore, but it IS available!! Now, lets look at particular models from the days when reel machines were king!!: Revox: great machines...very expensive...high quality...but also a bit delicate...can't abuse them and expect them to run well!! Tandberg: Relatively expensive, high quality, but much more delicate mechanisms than Revox and prone to need repairs more often. Teac/TASCAM: Excellent decks, tough as hell, relatively expensive, but not as expensive as Revox or Tandberg...alot tougher than either of them though. Teac made its reputation in the reel machine venue...before it ever had a reputatioin in anything else!!...and the model that made that reputation for them was a small stereo deck called the "1250"...a totally bullet-proof machine!! As home reel machines fell out of favor when the cassette deck got to be better quality, many of the highest quality 4-track offerings from Teac were absorbed into the TASCAM professional line, where they were marketed for a number more years. I have one of these...the 4 track, simul-track Teac A-2340-R...a 4-channel machine that allows you to record or playback any or all of the 4 tracks at any time...nice toy to have!!...AND it has automatic reverse for stereo playback...another nice feature (if you don't mind dealing with those little foil magnetic tape stickers to make it work for you!!). Ever hear a recording of Jethro Tull's Aqualung in original quad venue? If you find good condition CD-4/discrete vinyl LP's and have a Turntable with a CD-4 cartridge and a CD-4 demodulator for your 4 channel preamp section, then you can record these to reel if the machine is also a 4-channel reel machine...cool, huh? Akai: Made some very good tape decks, but always had a quality control problem that other reel-tape deck companies seemed not to have!!...so ...buyer beware!! Those GSX(glass and crystal ferrite) heads were fabulous though!! Many other makers of home reel decks over the years, too!! Some decks were direct-drive, dual capstan models, too, instead of belt-drive...gave excellent running characteristics!!...but also alot more expensive than belt-drive models!!...AND more prone to failure, since more moving parts involved!! What to look for in a good used deck? Well, it is always nice to have the original specs for that particular machine...but sometimes hard to find them today!! For a new user of reel machines who wants to give em a try, what STEREO models of yore would I recommend? Revox model A77 series (A-700 series if you want to get REALLY serious about it); Teac model A-3300S; or Braun TG-1020 series...can't go wrong with any of these!! Where do you find these gems today? On eBay, many top of the line decks that cost over $2,000 new in the mid-1970's often go for a hundred bucks or so now!!! How do you know if you are getting a good deal? You don't!!...not til you get it home, anyway, and find out if the heads are still good on it, the drive works, etc!!! What about specs? Well, MOST of the high quality decks had heads that would put you in the 30-18,000 Hz range plus or minus 3 dB...or even better...but, just because a tape deck specs say the response is above that at say 40-19,000 Hz, doesn't mean that you can't slap on some better heads and improve it!! Wow and flutter needs to be as low as possible, too! And Signal to noise ratio needs to be good, too!! For example, the Revox A-77 Mk IV-1104 had Freq. resp. of 30-20,000Hz(+2,-1dB);wow and flutter of 0.08%, s/n ratio of 66dB...pretty good as a high-end home deck of that time goes!! Is it worth investing in a reel machine? Well, to me it is...because two hours of party music in ANALOG format is kinda hard to beat...just the way I see it!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-04-2002 at 08:47 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Are we beating Ole NOS440 for buying a SS amp LOL !!!!! Hey everyone needs a little flavor in there life LOL !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Fin on Cars !!!! Your showing your age there Mark !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Ok...MP3, then...but it ain't analog and you can't record original CD-4 discrete on it, CAN YOU?!?!?!?! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 mdeneen, have you actually listened to MP3's on your main system? They are actually far less good sounding then you would imagine as the compression techniques are very gross. I find the MP3 to be a sonic nightmare with terrible resolution and some of the worst aspects of digital. Actually, the Reel to Reel would be a far better sounding piece. I have the two RR left over from past exploits, ironically enough, one is the exact same model as HDBRbuilder: TEAC A-2340. The reel to reel is capable of great sound at the highest speed. That being said, both of my RR are in the closet! heh.... The MP3 wins HANDS DOWN in convienence and availability of software. But the sonics of the MP3 are REALLY lousy... Try doing an MP3 of something you have the same digital source for and running both through your nice main rig. You will hear the difference straight off. ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Mobile Homeless: Did you know that around 1982, Klipsch bought one of those Teac A2340's and a DBX unit for the first custom demo sound track for the speakers in the (then) newly completed listening room in the old red brick office building? The tape deck was identical to the A2340R, except it said TASCAM instead of Teac...and the lever control for "fast-pause-play" had been replaced with solenoid buttons just like the "<-stop->" buttons above it? Oh, yeah...all of those solenoid buttons were in colors too!!...as were the mic/line control knobs on the left side!!...Blue and Red!! LOL! By-the-way...the lead-in of that three-track recording to demo the K-horn/Belle three-speaker stereo array in the listening room was from Michael Jackson's "Thriller" album...the lead-in and the bass run from the song "Thriller", sans any vocals...LOL! Boy, when those k-horns and Belle were playing that at volume, you could see the whole room vibrate!!! And, it sounded simply magnificent!!!!! Bye the way, MH, did you get that 2340 based on "more bang for the bucks" like I did? LOL!...I only paid 432 bucks for mine when it went on sale for clearance in the PX in Vicenza, Italy in '75...pretty good deal, huh?...Especially since it listed for around a grand at the time!! Another point, my after-taxes MONTHLY INCOME paycheck in 1975 as a buck sergeant with parachute jump pay included was just enough to buy it, cover my laundry expense for the month, and grab a case of Henninger beer!!! LOL! All I needed at the time!! mdeneen: MP3 that!!...LOL! Yes, if all one wants is CONVENIENCE, then go with MP3...but as for dropping any bucks on a reel machine...I DON'T HAVE TO!!! I ALREADY HAVE ONE!!! neener, neener!!!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-04-2002 at 10:31 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Woooo.... Read mdeneen's MP3/RR piece last night and decided to wait to see if it were a joke or not. I still assume it must be. MP3 has its place...near deaf people, automobiles, etc. I've used them to send edits to people I've recorded for approval, but that is about it. As to RR quality, they were providing "reel" high fi when nothing else could. I certainly agree that there is really only a place for them in nostalgia today. I own a Teac and a Sony, but, like others, they are relegated to storage as I've transferred most of the old material. I've two DBX outboard units that could easily extend the range to >90db. They were capable of fabulous sound. However, the modern equivalent would be, as mdeneen partially suggested, HDD...but to reach even 7.5ips DBX encoded quality on Ampex 457 tape will require at least a Card Deluxe and recording at 24/96. BTW, amongst others, I've a Beatles release on RR that ROCKS. Probably pretty valuable, though I've never checked it out. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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