chadmd80 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hello guys, I am a newbie here and just wanted to say that the forums and all of your expertise is really helpful to us newbies. First I will tell you my setup that is currently on its way. RF-82II, SW-112, RC-52II, RS-42II, AVR is a Denon 1913. That said this is my first venture into a real home audio setup so give me feedback on that as well. But my question is this. The way my living room is laid out I have no option except to place the surrounds on the back wall about 5 feet behind the couch. Will this be ok, will I still get a good surround sound from them in that position and how high should I mount them on the wall. Living room is about 741 sq.ft. Thanks again and it is a pleasure to be a part of this community finally.. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Welcome to the forum, Chad! You're probably going to get a lot of anecdotal advice on where to put your surrounds. I'll relate what I have found: 1) The optimum spread of the surrounds in plan view is 120 degrees from the TV screen, and at equal distance away from your listening position as your other speakers, especially your front speakers (Floyd Toole, Tomlinson Holman - "THX" proponent) 2) The optimum height above the floor is actually at ear level while seated (Floyd Toole), but many HTs have high-backed seats that absorb the mid and high frequencies from the surrounds, so there is a tendency to place them higher on the walls in order to get SPL coverage above the seats. (Me) Note that this is a compromise. 3) Wall mounted bi-radiating surrounds, like yours, actually like to be in front or behind your main listening position so that you're not on the centerline of the speaker. Your choice: front or behind. (Floyd Toole) 4) Bi-radiating surrounds usually assume that you are listening in HT mode only, not using the surround channels as full music channels for 5.1 surround disks that put separate instruments in each channel. This is a limitation of the bi-radial surround design. They will have a different "timbre" than your fronts because of this design choice. (Floyd Toole) 5) Putting the speakers on the rear wall is probably worse than placing them on very widely spread side walls (and correcting for the distance to the speakers using your AVR delay compensation settings), since human hearing cannot localize sound much more than 120 degrees from front and center (your nose). (Floyd Toole and others) Hope some of this helps. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2012 The optimum height above the floor is actually at ear level while seated (Floyd Toole) That's actually the first time I've heard that suggestion. Everything I've always read (THX & Dolby) suggest 2' - 3' above ear level. I personally would think at ear level the sound would be too directional if it was coming directly at my ears. Just my opinion. If all you have is a back wall, then that's all you have. It will still work fine. I wouldn't be too worried about it. You will have to decide if you want direct radiating or wide dispersion type speakers. Best wishes on your journey. I'm sure others will provide their thoughts and suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadmd80 Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Thanks guys for the great suggestions. Since the back wall is really my only option I will get them up there and see how they sound. I could use stands but with three dogs running around, one of them being a clumsy German Shepherd, I am scared that one will get knocked over and I am not willing to take that chance with such high dollar speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utard Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Maybe use RF4 II for your rear? They have a built in stand. I have the RS4 II as my sides and some RF5 II's as the rear surrounds. They sound good back there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 My surrounds are not in the textbook locations. I have mine near the ceiling on sidewall since I don't have a backwall close enough. I prefer them up high and not close to ear level. They work very well and add a spatial effect for helicopters, footsteps upstairs, ect. We all have to work with the room that we have unless designing a dedicated theater room. A lot of avr's will accomodate for not perfect placement with there auto-calibration software like Auddysee, MCACC or the one that comes with Yamaha equipment. The Klipsch surround work as well as the direct radiating speakers IMO since I have tried it with both type of speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Rs-42 will sound just fine behind you. And since this is new to you and have may have not heard any different you won't know what is better or worse anyways. I hope you got a sweet deal on those speakers and didn't pay msrp for them. And also I would mount them just tall enough that you won't have anybody banging their head on them when walking around your room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vital Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The optimum height above the floor is actually at ear level while seated (Floyd Toole) That's actually the first time I've heard that suggestion. Everything I've always read (THX & Dolby) suggest 2' - 3' above ear level. I personally would think at ear level the sound would be too directional if it was coming directly at my ears. Just my opinion. If all you have is a back wall, then that's all you have. It will still work fine. I wouldn't be too worried about it. You will have to decide if you want direct radiating or wide dispersion type speakers. Best wishes on your journey. I'm sure others will provide their thoughts and suggestions. Same here, I thought they were supposed to be 5-7 feet off the ground. I have my surrounds and rears at six feet with the RB-75s tilted down slightly, aimed at the sweet spot. I have not played much with the direction, not sure if they should be pointed at the sweet spot or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadmd80 Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Thanks everyone, I will have everything Monday. Just waiting on the 82's to get here then I will be installing. I will try to get some pics up on here once I get it done and a review of how it sounds. Not being an audiophile and never having anything other than box type surround sound I am sure this will be like going from a chevette to a corvette as far as my ears are concerned. I will keep you guys posted and thanks again for all the input. It is much appreciated. Chad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The optimum height above the floor is actually at ear level while seated (Floyd Toole) That's actually the first time I've heard that suggestion. Yes as close to ear level as possible is optimum for the fronts but not the surrounds, the surrounds are better placed higher and 2' - 3' above ear level is the normal suggested optimum height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 22, 2012 Moderators Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yeah, that's what I have always read as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Yeah, that's what I have always read as well.Guys, The original posting said the following: 2) The optimum height above the floor is actually at ear level while seated (Floyd Toole), but many HTs have high-backed seats that absorb the mid and high frequencies from the surrounds, so there is a tendency to place them higher on the walls in order to get SPL coverage above the seats. (Me) Note that this is a compromise. Look at page 501 of Toole's book, about halfway down the page. He is saying the same thing. He also stated that height information from front to side (surrounds) should be consistent with the surrounds. That is why mounting the surrounds slightly higher can be tolerated, but note that this is a compromise. Toole also said that your surrounds should be of similar size/quality in terms of the fidelity of their output to be able to reproduce the HT surround effects faithfully. I might add also that multi-channel music recordings using five fully independent music channels also dramatically benefit from higher quality surrounds with higher directionality than typical bipole surrounds. Bipole surrounds typically have timbre matching issues since they spray their acoustic energy around the room in a wider arc - sometimes approaching 180 degrees (or more), while fronts are typically designed for ~90 degrees of horizontal coverage. [bipole surround speakers are used in most commercial theaters due to the size, shape and proximity of the audience with respect to the front and center speakers. The need for bipoles is less certain in HTs where there may be only one or two rows of seats front-to-back that must be covered.] Vertical coverage is another issue: near-field ceiling bounce detracts from fronts, center, AND surround performance. It helps to have the surrounds aimed downwards a bit if they are mounted higher on the walls than ear level...just like the fronts (just like the K-402 horn on top of the Jubilee bass bin being above ear level - it decreases ceiling bounce issues by aiming them downwards slightly in smaller rooms--like those found in HTs). Chris [^o)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'd still disagree that optimum is at ear level and that higher is a compromise. I feel higher is optimum for surround speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 23, 2012 Moderators Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'd still disagree that optimum is at ear level and that higher is a compromise. I feel higher is optimum for surround speakers. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 chadmd80: The neat thing about speakers is that, if you don't like they way they sound, you can move them. Not to rub salt in anyone's specs here; if all you have is the rear wall, then that's where the surrounds need to be. And, although I do respect what the book has to say, it has been my personal experience that the surrounds tend to sound more believeable to me in a position above ear level and below the ceiling level. It makes them easier to hear over high-back seats and more difficult for listeners to localize rather then when they are at ear level. Again, this is my own opinion based on trial and error in my own theater. If you don't care for them in this configuration, then try hanging them at ear level. Remember: Each of us hears things differently and each room is unique! Just have fun with it and let us know how you make out and what you decide to do.Best of luck and welcome to the forum! -Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I guess, all I can do is echo the comments about having the sides a little higher than head level, in my setup, the sides are about 2 feet above the front main speakers but only slightly above ear level in the rear seats as the rear row is elevated above the front row. My rear speakers are mounted to the wall and about 3 feet out from center line of the room/seating as you may have guessed, I have a 7.1 setup. This works well for us and I would raise the sides a little higher if it was easier but the H2s are already on 3 foot stands and if I go much higher, they would be pretty unstable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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