Why does this setup sound so good

[allgonoshow]

Hey guys,

I have a simple, inexpensive system in my 2 channel room[see below] that simply sounds awesome.

I don't play at high volume and this system has a great sound stage and I hear details in cd's that I have been

listening to for many, many years, Let it Bleed, for example, that I have never heard before on any other system.

It blows me away every time I listen to this system

The room is 12x18x9, carpet floor and no windows, little furniture and no treatments, it is actually my home gym.

It sounds great from either cd or tuner.

Is it the amp or speakers, room or combo.

The reason I ask is I am tempted to change the amp to an Onyko tx8050 2 channel receiver so I can enjoy

internet radio or usb input if I want .

Any thoughts, don't mess with a good thing??

Maybe I could try a 8050 home trial.

[derrickdj1]

If you can get the Onkyo with a good return policy, go for it. Internet radio, usb connectivity, Pandora and other streaming services is a real plus.

[mustang guy]

Won't this plug into the amp?

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=952

Or for a little less:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=604&Title=NP30+Network+Music+Player

[allgonoshow]

Nice find, I've been on that site a million times but never looked at that stuff.

My amp has only rca inputs but both of the above have rca outputs. i have a local dealer, I'll go have a look and see what price point they are at.

My local Besy Buy has an open box Onkyo 8050, I'll see if I can return it if I find Iam losing the great sound I have now.

Thanx

edit, found a used stream magic 6 for $850 , nice stuff but that's not in the budget.

[Chris A]

I don't play at high volume and this system has a great sound stage and I hear details in CDs that I have been listening to for many, many years... It blows me away every time I listen to this system. The room is 12x18x9, carpet floor and no windows, little furniture and no treatments, it is actually my home gym. It sounds great from either CD or tuner.

It's your room: no furniture, no windows, smooth walls, and carpeted floor will give you a great stereo soundstage.

You can change the speakers and the electronics, but I wouldn't change your room's furnishings...and keep electronics racks out away from between the speakers and near field of the speakers on the side walls - about 3 feet or more distance.

Chris

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I don't play at high volume and this system has a great sound stage and I hear details in CDs that I have been listening to for many, many years... It blows me away every time I listen to this system. The room is 12x18x9, carpet floor and no windows, little furniture and no treatments, it is actually my home gym. It sounds great from either CD or tuner.

It's your room: no furniture, no windows, smooth walls, and carpeted floor will give you a great stereo soundstage.

You can change the speakers and the electronics, but I wouldn't change your room's furnishings...and keep electronics racks out away from between the speakers and near field of the speakers on the side walls - about 3 feet or more distance.

Chris

I was thinking the same thing. Get the speakers out in the room away from the walls and they will sound very different. The imaging really tightens up.

[Chris A]

I was thinking the same thing. Get the speakers out in the room away from the walls and they will sound very different. The imaging really tightens up.

By the way, you can also do the same thing by placing acoustic absorption panels on the side and front walls to soak up near-field reflections from your midrange: this is detailed in the "Corner Horn Imaging FAQ". It works miraculously for Jubs/K-402s, Khorns, and any other Klipsch speaker that you might want to put into the corner in order to get much better lf performance...

...usually, about an octave's worth of better lf performance, in fact.

Chris

[jhoak]

I've had my Onkyo TX-8050 for several months now and give it my highest recommendation.

I'm piping my PC in by way of optical, my TV by optical, and my DVD/CD by coaxial. They all sound great coming out of a pair of RF-3 IIs and a small subwoofer. I don't know what DAC chips that Onkyo used in the 8050 but they sound good to my ears.

For Pandora I tend to use my HTPC rather than the internal connection. I think the HTPC sounds better. I've read that if you're a paid subscriber to Pandora (I am) you get a higher bit rate feed but only when using a PC.

I've played MP3s and FLACs off of a USB flash drive and streamed music from my PC by way of the DLNA interface on the 8050. It really is a good fairly inexpensive way to integrate all of your digital content in to a nice 2.1 channel system.

A couple of minor caveats though... (1) The DLNA interface is a little "cludgy" in my opinion and takes a lot of steps to drill down to a particular album or song. (2) If you want to use the "Zone-2" function it only passes analog sources. (3) The phono input isn't very good. If you're planning to add a turntable at some point I'd look elsewhere.

[Chris A]

...The phono input isn't very good...

I use an external phono preamp plugged into my Onkyo PR-SC886 since the Onkyo's internal phono preamp is noisy. I use the Onkyo's "Aux1" input for phono input.

No problem - in fact, I would say it's preferable since I get a better phono preamp using the external one that I had on hand that I can locate further from all the other noisy stuff around the phono cable out from the cartridge. It's as quiet as I've ever had for a phono channel doing it this way.

Chris

[jhoak]

I don't recall the phono input being "noisy" just dull and lifeless. It also doesn't have enough gain. Where a CD or FM would be at 39-40 on the receiver to be a decent listening level I'd have to go to 50 or more to get the same volume level.

Truth be told I just need to sell my turntable and albums to someone who will appreciate them. I can't remember the last time I played one of them.

[Chris A]

Truth be told I just need to sell my turntable and albums to someone who will appreciate them. I can't remember the last time I played one of them.

I'm basically with you on this point...

I use my table about once a month or less. There are still some disks that aren't available on digital disk, for instance, early Mercury recordings of Chuck Mangione are not available on CD; and they're excellent.

I also have a fair amount of Philips/DG/London/etc. classical vinyl that I keep as alternatives to my digital collection that have "inspired performances" and hard-to-find recordings.

[allgonoshow]

Thanx for all the feedback guys.

The origional question was what makes my simple setup sound so great

and whether I can change some hardware and preserve the sound.

Personally, I think the speakers are biggest factor in the great sound and will

try and prove it to myself by swapping them out with several on hand options.

I have all the speakers listed in my signature as well as a set of

Paradigm export monitors and Psb alpha 1 bookshelves in the building

and can swap them out for comparion.

I wouldn't bother trying the Rf7's but I could try the RB61'S

Paradigm SE9'S and export monitors and the Psb's

I'll do this on the weekend.

If I find the speakers are the key to the great sound, I'll get the Onkyo and try it.

[mustang guy]

Here is some info I found at AK about those speakers:

DORMIE:
i have a pair,
very nice speakers,
very heavy cabinets,

Mirage 750 floor standing speakers,
3 way design,
10" woofers,
5" mid range,
3/4" soft dome magnetic ferro-fluid tweeters,
both mid range and tweeters are mirror imaged in the cabinet,
cabinets dimensions 31 3/4" high, 12 3/8" wide, 91/2" deep,

power range 25-200 watts,
impedance 8 ohms,
sensitivity 91 dB,
crossover frequencies 300 Hz, 5 kHz,

designed by Kevin Voecks at the start up of Mirage,

What had happened was that there was a company in Canada, called Inception Audio at that time, importing Tangent from England.
They had done a really great job of importing, to the extent that Tangent couldn't keep up production, got in over its head, and was about ready to go out of business due both to their success, ironically, in the Canadian market, and to poor management.
About that time KEF suddenly went out of the OEM driver market (footnote 2) and [Tangent] had been using KEF drivers.
Suddenly [inception] couldn't get product...So in a crash design situation—in about a month—Voecks did the whole [original Mirage] line, with available Audax drivers that were quite similar, actually, to the KEFs.
Voecks did all the Mirages, from the beginning. The 750 wasn't done during the "crash" period—it was done at a more sane rate.
He moved on to Snell Acoustics in mid 1980s.

KARLO:

one of my favorite -all-timers , lost mine in a house fire . before them,
i had the sm-2.5 , which were basically the same design...the 750 had
a better tweeter , but not that much better . they both were early '80s
designs w/ true low freq,...mid-bass,...tweeter ,putting the x-overs in the
sweet spots . midbass had its own relatively large enclosure within.
about $700pr in 1986 . not as "high end" as the much more expensive KEFs
or Cantons of the period , but very similar in design and sound to the
Boston a-150 .

It sounds to me as if you have a pair of good speakers there. Sometimes that vintage stuff can seem junky or cheap until you send a signal into them. Look at the cult following of Frazier speakers. I love my Fraziers.

[allgonoshow]

Thanx Mr Mustang.

I have seen most of those reviews and more.

I bought the Mirages on the recommendation of a friend and was

blown away the first time I heard them, and still am. They are very

unassuming in appearance, the cabinet is very shallow, but wide,

compared to modern designs.

I think I may have just hit a sweet combo by accident, I am 59 and have heard

alot of stuff over the years, but this simple setup excels.

I will try and do the speaker swap to proof, could be the Cambridge stuff too.

I have a fairly nice Klipsch setup in the adjacent room as well for reference.

[allgonoshow]

Well, I didn't swap out any speakers, I was confident the Mirages were the reason the system sounds so great.

I bought an Onkyo tx-8050 so I could have a sub, Ipod, internet radio, usb etc.

Quess what, it sounds like blah compared to the Cambridge amp.

I have them both setup side by side.

I swapped the speaker leads a dozen times and the difference is huge.

The Onkyo sounds dull and flat, not even close to the clear, rich detail of the Cambridge.

There is very little audio setup in the Onkyo and none in the Cambridge, so it's not really a setup issue.

Oh well, live and learn. Not sure what I will do now, probably return the Onkyo.

I'd rather have the sound than the features. I have lots of features in my other stuff.

Not bashing Onkyo, I have 2 avr's, but in this case the Cambridge wins.

[ivanhurd]

You could get a Roku, it has internet radio (Pandora), you will probably want to put a cheap monitor in there to use it tho. You could also get apple TV for the airplay capabilities. Anything that plays on your laptop/PC can play thru airplay. edit: Never mind, you said your amp has only RCAs...disregard.

[ivanhurd]

I stand corrected: http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Universal-Composite-Converter-Standard/dp/B0080KN18K/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1353577759&sr=1-2&keywords=hdmi+to+rca+converter

May be more trouble than it's worth tho, cuz you'd also have to get an HDMI splitter to send the video signal to a monitor, unless you have an old TV laying around that accepts the yellow rca...Might be able to find one for super cheap at a garage sale or second hand store...

[allgonoshow]

Thanx for the feedback, I still have both amps hooked up,.

Stupid question, for the sake of evaluation, could I run speaker leads from both amps to each speaker.

ie two leads to each speaker terminal and switch from one amp to the other to be sure my ear is correct.

Funny thing is my 2 channel room is my home gym and the only place on the planet that I have privacy.

It is the only place I can listen to what I want, when I want, volume is not part of the issue, but I cherish the

space and the quality of what I listen to. I'm sure you all can relate.

The Cambridge tuner and amp are awesome, I have local radio and I have tons of cd's, so the added features of the Onkyo are not

biggies but would be nice to have if I can preserve the sound.

So, can I hook the two amps to the speakers for quick switching??

[Dennie]

Thanx for the feedback, I still have both amps hooked up,.

Stupid question, for the sake of evaluation, could I run speaker leads from both amps to each speaker.

ie two leads to each speaker terminal and switch from one amp to the other to be sure my ear is correct.

Funny thing is my 2 channel room is my home gym and the only place on the planet that I have privacy.

It is the only place I can listen to what I want, when I want, volume is not part of the issue, but I cherish the

space and the quality of what I listen to. I'm sure you all can relate.

The Cambridge tuner and amp are awesome, I have local radio and I have tons of cd's, so the added features of the Onkyo are not

biggies but would be nice to have if I can preserve the sound.

So, can I hook the two amps to the speakers for quick switching??

The short answer.... NO!!!!

Dennie

[muel]

...So, can I hook the two amps to the speakers for quick switching??

Nope. You could do it with a Niles amplifier switch though: http://www.nilesaudio.com/images/PDF/SPK-1_Cutsheet.pdf

You would need to add a 12 volt source that will switch to the other amplifier when the 12 volts are applied. You should still be very careful! I am always sure any amp I have on is connected to speakers. I don't use it for quick switching but to keep from having to swap speaker connections back and forth.