plissken99 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Ok, I'll try to make this short. I am very proud of my system, RF-7 9.1 system with DeanG modded fronts, driven by the Emotiva XPA-5, 200w to 5 channels(with Pioneer 1120 reciever as a pre amp and driving the rears and front heights). That said, a friend brought over a restored Heathkit SA-2 tube amplifier, he restored it himself, 15w into 2 channels. We hooked it into my system driving the mains, and plugged in AC/DC Live at Donnington Blu Ray. The sound was incredible, but had a downside(sort of) which doesn't play into the discussion really. The upside being the transparency of the sound, I mean it sounded great before, but with the tube amp it was like having Angus Young's Marshall amps in the theater rather than my speakers! Our ears were ringing as if we'd been in the crowd. The downside I mentioned, was this little amp is the style with volume, bass and treble controls, so we had to dial it in for what we perceived as the correct sound, so the result was my solid state amp sounds more precise, it just lacks the rawness of the tube sound. So obviously a dedicated amp would just be a straight power amp, letting the reciever control the audio levels. Finally the question I'm getting at... I am now a tube fan lol. Said friend is incredible with this stuff and can build amps for me at cost(under $400 for a 2ch 50wpc amp) I am debating whether to build three 2 channel amps and let tube amps take over full time for movies and music, OR let build a 3 channel amp for the front 3, and integrating it into the system(via a speaker switcher) soley for musical purposes. Two concerns, A, is tube power not well suited to movies? B, obviously full time use like this would wear the tubes out, my friend guesstemated 6 months till the 1st tube change. Any and all thoughts welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted December 6, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 6, 2012 Great question. I've always heard tubes being primarily used for 2ch. Not sure how well suited they are for HT. IMO, your XPA-5 would likely be better for HT due to the dynamics of a movie from explosions, to gunshots etc. I'm nust not sure 15w from a tube amp would be a better fit. Of course, this is only speculation on my part, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plissken99 Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Well the one(s) I build would be 50wpc, the 15wpc was what we had to demo today is all. But yes, the dynamics are what I'm concerned with(where movies are concerned). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Solid state for movies hands down . Tubes have a warmth in the sound and are not suited to the quick dynamics you need with movies , chick flicks not withstanding . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted December 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 7, 2012 That's right, you did mention that. Here is an idea, what about a Tube Preamp to give you the warmer sound quality paired with a solid state amp? Just a thought. Lots of thoughts out there on the subject - Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plissken99 Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean. A tube powered preamplifier would effect sound quality? Tube pre amps with HDMI and other modern bells and whistles... I'm imagining some very hefty prices if there is such an animal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Finally the question I'm getting at... I am now a tube fan lol. Said friend is incredible with this stuff and can build amps for me at cost(under $400 for a 2ch 50wpc amp) I am debating whether to build three 2 channel amps and let tube amps take over full time for movies and music, OR let build a 3 channel amp for the front 3, and integrating it into the system(via a speaker switcher) soley for musical purposes. Or you could just go buy a "warmish tubey" sounding powerful amp(200w/ch) like this B&K and get much closer to what you want than your Emotiva will get you. http://dallas.craigslist.org/sdf/ele/3394313818.html I have owned this same amp and it did a wonderful job driving my RF-63's. B&K has often been desribed as having a "tube like" warmness and I would ahave to agree. Let me clerify, you can only get a true tube sound with tubes. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Or get the B&K Ref 4420 and a mono B&K 200w/ch amp. http://dallas.craigslist.org/sdf/ele/3449851216.html Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Didn't movie houses use tubes years ago with good results? That said, I do think solid state is easier and perhaps more simple. I'm probably going to be solid state but, I'm open to mixing tubes in as well, if "mr. Budget" were to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted December 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean. A tube powered preamplifier would effect sound quality? I would think so. Just like different preamps have different sounds, I would think different tube preamps would do the same? Maybe I'm wrong. You are correct though, I'm not sure I've seen a tube preamp with HDMI (although they could make them). My thought is for 2ch, sure, go tube if that is the sound you are looking for but for HT, stick with solid state amps and it will rock your world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It seems like a multichannel tube DAC with Sabre32 Reference chip, then into the tube amp(s) of choice would be the way to go for the purest tube fidelity. An HDMI switch to switch sources, and something in there to manipulate the gain levels. Perhaps there is a DAC with discreet level adjustments for each channel. Oh, and you need a sub with high level inputs if the DAC doesn't have a sub-out. Sound reasonable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I can't find a multichannel TUBE dac using the Sabre32 Reference chip. Somebody needs to make that thing. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 you can put tube buffers on a regular decoder and wind up with the same thing. for a 7 channel solid state decoder, 4 stereo tube buffers would do it. If you are handy with a sodering gun.....buy 7 tube buffer boards , put together a power supply, put it all in a case, and you have a seven channel tube buffer. 1 note....if you go with multichannel tube buffering...you need matched tubes...otherwise your imaging will shift due to the differences in amplitude of each buffer due to the minute differences in the individual tubes transconductance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 How about bi amping. I always wanted what it would be like with three monoblocks on the hf horns for the l/c/r, and use 3 channels of your Emotiva for the bottom end, you would need a active 3 channel crossover. But who knows, it would be a little costly but might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 8, 2012 It wouldn't be cheap but why not just use a receiver with pre-outs, or even better a HT pre-amp, connect tube amps to the pre-outs and go from there ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plissken99 Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 Are you saying they have receivers/pre amps with multiple pre outs for more than one set of speakers? What I'm leaning toward so far is my original idea of having just a 3 channel tube amp to drive my front speakers for music alone, then have it and the Emotiva connected to a switcher so I can go back and forth between solid state and tube power on the mains. The tube buffers sound bad, trying to simulate tube sound from solid state, like adding record pops and hisses to an mp3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 8, 2012 Ok I missed part of the original idea, I don't know about multiple sets of pre-outs except for like the zone 2 preouts but that would still need a switchbox because of two separate amps going to the mains. A switch box would still be needed but let me throw out another idea. How I have mine is a little different but it may give you something else to think about. I have two different sets of speakers (same room) for Ht and 2 Ch, I use one Br player to feed both. I went from the Br player with optical cable using a optical splitter, one going to the Ht receiver and the other going to a DAC for 2 Ch using other amps. I say this because you could use a DAC to feed your tube amps for 2 Ch to keep it separate from the HT stuff. I got an Emotiva XPA-1 DAC used for $160 shipped which makes it a cheap way to separate things. The XDA-1 is discontinued for a 2 version and some are selling them for roughly this price. I like the way it sounds, I use it as a pre-amp, just the BR into the XDA straight into amps for 2 Ch. Just a cheap way to separate things with good results, still would need a switch box to disconnect one set of wires to the mains. Hope i didn't just make things more confusing, I tend to do that sometimes trying to get the best sound for the least amount of money. [:S] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Ok I missed part of the original idea, I don't know about multiple sets of pre-outs except for like the zone 2 preouts but that would still need a switchbox because of two separate amps going to the mains. A switch box would still be needed but let me throw out another idea. How I have mine is a little different but it may give you something else to think about. I have two different sets of speakers (same room) for Ht and 2 Ch, I use one Br player to feed both. I went from the Br player with optical cable using a optical splitter, one going to the Ht receiver and the other going to a DAC for 2 Ch using other amps. I say this because you could use a DAC to feed your tube amps for 2 Ch to keep it separate from the HT stuff. I got an Emotiva XPA-1 DAC used for $160 shipped which makes it a cheap way to separate things. The XDA-1 is discontinued for a 2 version and some are selling them for roughly this price. I like the way it sounds, I use it as a pre-amp, just the BR into the XDA straight into amps for 2 Ch. Just a cheap way to separate things with good results, still would need a switch box to disconnect one set of wires to the mains. Hope i didn't just make things more confusing, I tend to do that sometimes trying to get the best sound for the least amount of money. That makes perfect sense, well to me. I think this would work pretty good all most worth giving it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted December 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 8, 2012 Thanks, I confuse myself sometimes trying to figure out ways to get things to work. If anyone ever wanted to try a DAC looking for the XDA-1 used right now is a cheap way to go, the 2 model has just come out so some are selling. For $160 shipped with well over a year still left on the warranty this was by far the best and cheapest thing I have tried which worked better than hoped. They were $199 when they were clearing the last ones out and I missed one at that price, glad I did now, the new model is $349 and not that much different at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plissken99 Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 I see where your coming from, it's interesting, but ultimately it's not quite what I'm going for. I was thinking with a 3 ch tube amp could drives the mains, while the Emotiva still drives the rears for 5.1 and 7.1 recordings. And if I want just dedicated 2 channel stereo with the tubes, I can just set my reciever to stereo, no need to introduce another DAC into the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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