Klipsch Cornwall III ON RISERS review by Boomzilla

[Boomzilla]

I lifted my Klipsch Cornwall IIIs off of the floor via plastic shelves, I immediately got a fine soundstage with both width and depth. No tweaking required. Getting the speakers off the floor also seems to have cured their excess bass problems. They're no longer boomy!

Auditioning material included:

• Jennifer Warnes - The Hunter album
• The Commitments - In The Midnight Hour
• Don Dorsey - JS Bach - Toccata & Fugue in D minor
• DJ Magic Mike - Vicious Bass
• Lou Bega - Ice Cream
• Cameo - Word Up
• The Nylons - Kiss Him Goodbye
• Blood, Sweat, & Tears - He's a Runner, Something's Coming On, 40,000 Headmen

In all cases, the elevated Cornwalls threw a wide and deep soundstage with rock-solid center imaging. The verisimilitude of the music was height dependent. Too low or too high caused phasey sounding interferences. The best height for me was with the top of the 15" woofer at ear level. This puts the midrange and tweeter horns just slightly above, but that's where they worked best. The best toe-in was mid-way between parallel to the back wall and pointing straight at the listening position.

If you've never heard the Cornwalls off the floor, may I suggest buying some cheap plastic shelves and trying them out. Just make sure the shelving is rated to hold weight equal to or greater than the Cornwalls.

Boomzilla

[moray james]

Thanks for posting. I have been telling people this to the point that some folks just don't want to hear it. The fact is a speaker needs to be positioned so that the centre of the mid horn is at your seated ear level. The horns should not be tilted up or down as that throws off the stage and image. Glad that you discovered this. Best regards Moray James.

[derrickdj1]

People think they will loose bass with the speaker off the floor, this may only effect coupling in the mid bass region if it rasied to high. Getting the tweeter up to ear level is always a good thing.

[Boomzilla]

On the floor, the Cornwall 3s just aren't very good speakers. The Cornwall ones with their 600 Hz. crossover were far, far better floorstanders. The woofer still had significant dispersion at the crossover point. With the 800 Hz. crossover used in the CW3, the woofers beam at their upper frequencies. That's why they MUST be elevated to work their best. If you've never tried your Cornwall IIIs on stands, buy some of these:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/8251816?adid=1500000000000038332490&veh=eml

They're sturdy enough to handle the weight, and the Cornwall risers fit the corners fine.

I also found that the CW3s were excessively bass-heavy and rather boomy sitting on the floor. The risers alleviate that problem as well. I almost sold my Cornwalls until I tried the risers. I doubt that I'll keep the plastic shelves permanently. I plan to build a matching stand that will put the top of the woofer/bottom of the midrange horn at my ear level (for me, 42"). Thanks for the feedback, Mr. James.

[Dr Morbius]

Would this work for Cornscala's too?

[moray james]

I would recommend that you experiment with a single 1/8" thick layer od S.A.E. rated F-11 acoustical felt over the woofer. This will not negatively impact the low end and it will actually provide a little additional load but it will most importantly catch the high frequency dadiation of the woofer which you don't want to hear you really want to leave that job to the mid horn or mid/hi horn if a two way. This is exactly what I do on my 12" woofers in my Heresy 3 speakerss and it works very well. Do not substitute you need F-11 felt. Best regards Moray James.

PS: damping the woofer chassis with Dynamat will also help reduce a lot of noise. There are other mods you could do as well if you are interested.

[Boomzilla]

Would this work for Cornscala's too?

Yes. Having the midrange at ear level ALWAYS improves imaging. It is inexpensive to try (plastic shelving units are cheap). If you like the effect, then some DIY risers are easy to build or you can forage until you find something the right height.

[Marvel]

People think they will lose bass with the speaker off the floor,

Not a bad thing for Cornwalls... []

Bruce

[tromprof]

People think they will loose bass with the speaker off the floor, this may only effect coupling in the mid bass region if it rasied to high. Getting the tweeter up to ear level is always a good thing.

Worked for my La Scalas as well. Better imaging and I didn't notice a drop off in bass (not that the La Scala has bass like Cornwall).

[RT FAN]

Glad to hear you are keeping your Cornwalls, Boomzilla. Nice to see that a simple solution solved your problem.Now go & enjoy them.

[Guest Teresa Wright]

So, Boomzilla, I'm guessing you can use only one of these shelves-not all four put together??? My Cornwall ii's sound great, and they do have the risers already, but if I can improve the sound I want to try. Thanks

[Boomzilla]

If nothing else, set the speakers on some kitchen chairs and listen - Zero expense and you'll either hear a difference or not. For me, it was a BIG difference. On the floor, my Cornwalls were boomy, bass-heavy, and the transition from the woofer to the midrange horn was very clearly audible. The speakers did not throw a soundstage - just right, left, and center with nothing in between. By adding the risers that brought the midrange horn and woofer closer to ear level, ALL of the above problems were reduced.

Be advised that if you haven't a strong back it is helpful to get assistance in lifting the speakers. They are HEAVY not to mention bulky and cumbersome.

Before I finalize my design for home-made stands, I'm taking Mr. Moray James' advice. I'll cut the plastic risers on my shelves to put the midrange horn exactly at ear level and see if I like the results. This doesn't make the stands worthless, just slightly lower. The ratio of time and effort to cut the shelves vs. having to reengineer the wooden stands makes it a no-brainer to try a different height with the shelving first.

Cheers - Boomzilla

[Boomzilla]

By the way, THIS is what I bought to experiment with:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Plano-4-Shelf-Storage-Unit-Dark-Grey-917701/8251820

And HERE's what it looks like:

For $16 and free delivery to your local Wally-World, why NOT experiment?

[Boomzilla]

Hi Stephen -

Like your taglines. One of my favorites (less obscure but still poignant):

Couple in the next room bound to win a prize

They've been going at it all night long

I'm trying to get some sleep but these motel walls are cheap

Lincoln Duncan is my name and here's my song

Here's my song...

[Marvel]

I use a pair of these Rubbermaid step stools under my Hresesy IIs.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Newell-Rubbermaid-Home-420087BISQUE-Step-Stool-Bisque-Each/23136954

Works great, as they are for our TV audio. My LS are tall enough, and the mid horn is right abut ear level as is.

Bruce

[Boomzilla]

So now that the speakers are set and ready to go, it's amplifier time!

Options on hand include:

• DAC direct to power amp as a preamp
• Dared SL2000A tube preamp
• Rogue Audio Tempest Magnum integrated tube amp (KT-88s)
• Harmon Kardon AVR-1565 receiver
• VTL Compact 100 tube monoblocks
• Emotiva XPA-2 solid state power amp (300 WPC)

Any bets on which combo, receiver, or integrated will sound best?

My two "best guesses" at the moment:

1. Dared with Emotiva or

2. HK AVR

Surprised at the second choice? Leave it on for a day or two and THEN listen - an AMAZING sound from such an inexpensive AVR!

[RT FAN]

I thought I recognized those lyrics, Paul Simon is revered for his songwriting but he is also an underrated guitar player as well. Nice problem you have selecting your gear to match up with those Cornwalls. Good luck.

[Boomzilla]

Thank you - Yes, I'm a Paul Simon fan...

The amplification is proving to be an issue. The darned Dared tube preamp (which is brand new) hums. It sounds great, it just hums.

The VTL Compact 100s which sang so sweetly with the La Scalas that I had just don't do it with the Cornwalls.

The Emotiva XPA-2 sounds fantastic, but I keep thinking "WHY do I really need 300 wpc?"

I tried a SAE solid state preamp, but it had both some hiss and a flat sound stage.

Today, I'll try plugging the Audioquest Dragonfly directly into the Emotiva and see what I get.

If that isn't the right sound, then I'll throw in the receiver and see what it will do.

The Rogue Audio is at the shop for the moment.

I think that if I could get the hum out of the Dared, the best combo might just be the Dared with the Emotiva power amp. I've contacted Dared to see what they can do or suggest.

I also shortened the risers under my Cornwalls to put the midrange horn closer to ear level. With the Dared and the VTLs in the system last night, the midrange became a bit fierce. I don't know if it was an artifact of the amplification or whether having the midrange horn on axis with the ears caused the phenomenon. If it happens again today with totally solid-state amplification I'll try Mr Moray James' suggestion of physically dampening the midrange driver. Morray suggests a ping-pong ball in the throat, but I've had success before with a small wad of toilet paper. I'll try both and see what happens.

These changes (putting the speakers on a stand - reducing the midrange output - etc.) are essentially "re-engineering" the speaker. I've not had another Klipsch speaker where I felt that this effort was needed, but with the Cornwall 3s, the "out of the box" sound was just atrocious. As always, the previous comment must be prefaced with "in my room - with my equipment and - to my ears."

[firstmusic]

Hi Moray - I've followed your comments on the forum regarding Klipsch modification, especially those related to stifening the cabinets. I have some Heresy 1's that I've changed out the x-over, woofer and tweeter with Bob Crites sourced components. However, I have a general complaint about my Heresy's - even running them with an el34 tube integrated I find the high end/tweeter to be to sharp sounding. I have the speakers on stands about 18' off the floor and have played around with different positioning but can't seem to smooth out the higher midrange teble harshness. Any ideas, also, is there a good link to take me to a Heresy cabinet bracing how -to, with some good pictures? Any and all comments are appreciated.

Thanks,

Michael

[moray james]

Michael: depending upon your seating position you will need a stand which is between 22 and 14 inches tall to place a Heresy mid horncentre at your seated ear level. I use a diffraction ball in both the mid horn (40mm and inthe tweeter (38 mm) I wuse some F-11 felt on the back side of echs not a lot a single 1/4" pad 1/8" thick on the tweeter ball and a 3/8" square by 1/4" thick one on the mid ball. I also modify the compression drivers with Dynamat and F-11 felt inside and out and I damp the back side of the horns with Dynamat. You can see how I braced my H3 here http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=438234 they are about 8% solid packed with high density fiberglass insulation. I also use F-11 acoustical felt to damp the spiders of the woofers and dynamat on the basket. Currently I an running two way and don't have any more interest in three way designs even a Heresy sounds bettter as a two way. I would say that a good place to start off with quality two ways is the CF3 or CF4 and go from there. I may have given up on horns in favor of Karlson Tubes but I am not saying that I have a problem listening to a good horn they just cost a lot and they take up a lot of space. I hope this helps. There are a number of modification posts that I have made over at audio karma dot org which you might be interested in haveing a look at to see what I have done. I hope that this is helpful. Best regards Moray James.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=438234