vaffa Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Hi all, I always wanted to try some Heresy and finally I scored a set of 1974 all alnico Heresy I the ones with the red surrounds. I know that they are known to be "bass shy" and I am fine with that. The problem is that they are shouting at me. I had a pair of KG4 in the past, so I tried horns. I really think that something is wrong with the old crossovers. What to to? I was reading around and I've found a few options. - Just recap the crossover with new components (or get a a completely new crossover from Crities)? - Or while I'm there try something like the ALK ones? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Welcome vaffa! Can't be of help myself, but I'm sure someone else will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaffa Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 Thanks Sancho. I forgot to mention that I have them hooked up to a McIntosh 2100 (up to specs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Heresys are prone to 'shouting', and are very input (amp type... Macs are a good match) and room-placement sensitive (in my experience). So... 1) Make sure the XO connections are tight and correct (and that the woofers are working), and that the polarity of your speaker leads are correct, 2) Experiment with placement: near walls, away from walls, in corners, away from corners, on the floor, or risers, tilted up, etc., 3) Refresh the caps in the XO (no need for new XOs). In my experience with heritage Klipsch 3-ways, the old caps tend to mute the highs, but it depends on where they drift. Good luck! ...and congratulations! I'd love a pair of raw birch Decorators someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 You can do any of the above to "refresh" them for better performance. Contact Dean Wescott(DeanG on forum) at http://www.aletheiaaudio.com/index.html or Bob Crites at http://www.critesspeakers.com/ Either one will provide quality workmanship and a fair price. Not sure of turn around time for either option. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicSeeker Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Welcome to the forum, Heresys are prone to 'shouting', and are very input (amp type... Macs are a good match) and room-placement sensitive (in my experience). So... 1) Make sure the XO connections are tight and correct (and that the woofers are working), and that the polarity of your speaker leads are correct, 2) Experiment with placement: near walls, away from walls, in corners, away from corners, on the floor, or risers, tilted up, etc., 3) Refresh the caps in the XO (no need for new XOs). In my experience with heritage Klipsch 3-ways, the old caps tend to mute the highs, but it depends on where they drift. Good luck! ...and congratulations! I'd love a pair of raw birch Decorators someday. The above advice is spot on. I have some 1976 Decorator heresy's that should be arriving tomorrow. My plan is to upgrade the crossovers when they arrive with some Jensen PIO caps from Dean. http://www.aletheiaaudio.com/index.html Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Due to their age, I recommend tighten all of the drivers, horn hardware + add a gasket to the rear cover. Air leaks are notorious for causing weak bass, and often leads us to the conclusion the speakers are shouting. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicSeeker Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 What would you suggest for a gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaffa Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 Thanks for all the suggestions. I will go for a crossover rebuild kit from Crities which is a little investment and it should bring them closer to where they should be. I will also order a set of those gaskets that goes between driver and horn. While doing that I will also check all the connections and tighten the drivers as suggested. I will then play with the placement and report. I'm curious to about what kind of gasket to use for the back panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) Shouting? The real fix is to adjust the levels of the midrange and tweeter down one tap, and add a 15~16Ω 10W~25W resistor in parallel with the midrange driver. Unless you have the Heresy on the floor and in the corner the balance on the mids and HF are too hot. Edited November 19, 2013 by djk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 What would you suggest for a gasket. Foam tape works good or caulk strips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 What Dennis (djk) said... that's the easiest. The rest is just icing on the cake. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaffa Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 I agree. Working with the preamp helped. I have new caps in the mail and I may try the resistor trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Adding the resitor will help immensely! Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaffa Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 What's the wattage for the resistor? 5w? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Edited previous post. http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/eagle-10-watt/eagle-16-ohms/ http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/mundorf-10-watt/mundorf-15-ohm-metal-oxide-film-resistors/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaffa Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 Ordered the resistors too. I just receiver the new caps and I noticed that I have a crossover type D. Should I leave it as is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Wire it like an E, the phase of the mids is the only difference. Don't forget to drop the mid down to tap 1 and the tweeter to tap 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Dennis, The way I see it...messing with the crossover right off the bat, is putting the cart before the horse. How about trying some EQ instead? Trimming the power of the signal instead of re-wiring the crossover seems more sensible to me, especially when the cab's mechanical condition isn't necessarily guaranteed...in addition to a myriad of other variables. It certainly involves less work. What's your reasoning behind always suggesting crossover modification to resolve an possible response issue? Why is the crossover always the source of the problem? I really do want to know your take on this. I've had several visitors tell me they really like the sound of my equipment, yet I've never modified a single one of my networks. Changing out or re-soldering specific filter components would be at the very bottom of my troubleshooting checklist if I was experiencing bad sound. Please, enlighten me. Respectfully, QH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) "What's your reasoning behind always suggesting crossover modification to resolve an possible response issue? Why is the crossover always the source of the problem?" The K55V is 110dB/W (107dB/2.83V), the K22 is not 98dB (which it would need to be for the -9dB tap on the T2 autoformer). The position of the loudspeaker in 4Pi (freestanding) vs 2Pi (floor), or 1Pi (floor/wall juncture) requires adjustment of the mids and HF to balance with the woofer. A stock Heresy type E measures really well in 1Pi, and sounds good in that position too. I measured them in various positions in the late 70's with a gated swept-sinewave system, along with most every other product in the store. Most people use a stand mount, and not flat against the wall either. Those will benefit the most from the network change. Heresy I woofer K-22-EDiam 12 "Fs 33 HzQms 4.61Qes 0.38Qts 0.35Vas 6.02 CuftNomZ 8 OhmRe 6.8 OhmPe 100 WattsSd 86.6 sqinXmax 2.032 mmSPL 94.8 dB@2.83VLe 1.02 mHBL 15 TM Remember, the SPL is for 2Pi. Edited November 21, 2013 by djk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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