CECAA850 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 i have heard the same but if you whole spectrum is flat except for one spot how can you do that? see what i'm saying? Trying to boost a frequency that's low due to a room null only eats up amplifier power and does nothing to increase the output at that frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 i have heard the same but if you whole spectrum is flat except for one spot how can you do that? see what i'm saying? Trying to boost a frequency that's low due to a room null only eats up amplifier power and does nothing to increase the output at that frequency. Exactly!!! That is why I have never tried boosting it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I like my Paradigm X30. They don't make them any more, but if you can pick one up, you will love the ease of it. Thanks for the info but, please let's stick to the topic...I already have the gear I am gonna use... Ouch. Slapped me pretty hard . . . Sorry didn't mean to be so harsh, I am just not interested in what others are using for themselves. I have to use what I have I am not looking for advice on gear, I have that already... Next time you post for help, specify what gear you have and that you are not wanting to purchase new things. Your question was vague, and I was not off track from your post. Read it. I believe as other here do, that 90Hz is far to high for the mains. Setting the subs at 120Hz is also way off. The setting of 120Hz LFE in an AVR is not the same as using an active crossover like your Yammy. I like steep curves at about 50Hz for you. Schu is right. I think I may know what's happening to you, cancellation. of course you are going to have room modes. Everybody does. But you may be actually worsening it as evidence by what you said. Subs in corners, Khorns in corners. Everything is cancelling everything out, plus you have an overlap between 90 and 120Hz. Get rid of the overlap between 90 and 120, and shift the phase of the two subs so they don't cancel one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Getting bass right is probably the most significant and common system bottleneck. The room's influence dominates at low frequencies. Truer words have never been spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Getting bass right is probably the most significant and common system bottleneck. The room's influence dominates at low frequencies. Truer words have never been spoken. Yet so often people throw a sub in a room and call it a day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Getting bass right is probably the most significant and common system bottleneck. The room's influence dominates at low frequencies. Truer words have never been spoken. Yet so often people throw a sub in a room and call it a day Yes and every so often it works, I know mine does.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Getting bass right is probably the most significant and common system bottleneck. The room's influence dominates at low frequencies. Truer words have never been spoken. Yet so often people throw a sub in a room and call it a day Yes and every so often it works, I know mine does.... They ALL work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Thank you, Ski Bum. I have a better understanding now. Will I need a separate processor if I buy the RT-10D's? (Waiting for my slap from Canyonman for hijacking the thread). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 I like my Paradigm X30. They don't make them any more, but if you can pick one up, you will love the ease of it. Thanks for the info but, please let's stick to the topic...I already have the gear I am gonna use... Ouch. Slapped me pretty hard . . . Sorry didn't mean to be so harsh, I am just not interested in what others are using for themselves. I have to use what I have I am not looking for advice on gear, I have that already... Next time you post for help, specify what gear you have and that you are not wanting to purchase new things. Your question was vague, and I was not off track from your post. Read it. I believe as other here do, that 90Hz is far to high for the mains. Setting the subs at 120Hz is also way off. The setting of 120Hz LFE in an AVR is not the same as using an active crossover like your Yammy. I like steep curves at about 50Hz for you. Schu is right. I think I may know what's happening to you, cancellation. of course you are going to have room modes. Everybody does. But you may be actually worsening it as evidence by what you said. Subs in corners, Khorns in corners. Everything is cancelling everything out, plus you have an overlap between 90 and 120Hz. Get rid of the overlap between 90 and 120, and shift the phase of the two subs so they don't cancel one another. First this is a 2 channel setup no AVR, the yamaha is not a xover. It is a parametric EQ with HPF, LPF, and notch filters. I am using REW to measure the room and the curves indicate that below 100hz the mains are rolling off. More later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I like my Paradigm X30. They don't make them any more, but if you can pick one up, you will love the ease of it. Thanks for the info but, please let's stick to the topic...I already have the gear I am gonna use... Ouch. Slapped me pretty hard . . . Sorry didn't mean to be so harsh, I am just not interested in what others are using for themselves. I have to use what I have I am not looking for advice on gear, I have that already... Next time you post for help, specify what gear you have and that you are not wanting to purchase new things. Your question was vague, and I was not off track from your post. Read it. I believe as other here do, that 90Hz is far to high for the mains. Setting the subs at 120Hz is also way off. The setting of 120Hz LFE in an AVR is not the same as using an active crossover like your Yammy. I like steep curves at about 50Hz for you. Schu is right. I think I may know what's happening to you, cancellation. of course you are going to have room modes. Everybody does. But you may be actually worsening it as evidence by what you said. Subs in corners, Khorns in corners. Everything is cancelling everything out, plus you have an overlap between 90 and 120Hz. Get rid of the overlap between 90 and 120, and shift the phase of the two subs so they don't cancel one another. First this is a 2 channel setup no AVR, the yamaha is not a xover. It is a parametric EQ with HPF, LPF, and notch filters. I am using REW to measure the room and the curves indicate that below 100hz the mains are rolling off. More later. Yes I know. I was drawing a comparison of what LFE is in an AVR as compared to an EQ like you are using. Just in case that was the reason for your decision on 120Hz. I have a Behringer DCX2496, which is a lot like what you are using. You posted a nice chart. A picture is worth a thousand words. Have you tested for the problem in multiple locations of the room? Have you measured with only 1 channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 The DCX2496 or similar is what he really needs; everything in one component. He's correct, even with their high pass/low pass functions, the Yamaha eqs are not "crossovers" per se with the requisite number of filtered outputs. They're just two in / two out, or one in / one out when in mono. Either way he uses it (them?), he needs two if he wants to eq the subs and the mains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 I like my Paradigm X30. They don't make them any more, but if you can pick one up, you will love the ease of it. Thanks for the info but, please let's stick to the topic...I already have the gear I am gonna use... Ouch. Slapped me pretty hard . . . Sorry didn't mean to be so harsh, I am just not interested in what others are using for themselves. I have to use what I have I am not looking for advice on gear, I have that already... Next time you post for help, specify what gear you have and that you are not wanting to purchase new things. Your question was vague, and I was not off track from your post. Read it. I believe as other here do, that 90Hz is far to high for the mains. Setting the subs at 120Hz is also way off. The setting of 120Hz LFE in an AVR is not the same as using an active crossover like your Yammy. I like steep curves at about 50Hz for you. Schu is right. I think I may know what's happening to you, cancellation. of course you are going to have room modes. Everybody does. But you may be actually worsening it as evidence by what you said. Subs in corners, Khorns in corners. Everything is cancelling everything out, plus you have an overlap between 90 and 120Hz. Get rid of the overlap between 90 and 120, and shift the phase of the two subs so they don't cancel one another. First this is a 2 channel setup no AVR, the yamaha is not a xover. It is a parametric EQ with HPF, LPF, and notch filters. I am using REW to measure the room and the curves indicate that below 100hz the mains are rolling off. More later. Yes I know. I was drawing a comparison of what LFE is in an AVR as compared to an EQ like you are using. Just in case that was the reason for your decision on 120Hz. I have a Behringer DCX2496, which is a lot like what you are using. You posted a nice chart. A picture is worth a thousand words. Have you tested for the problem in multiple locations of the room? Have you measured with only 1 channel? Please show me the chart you are talking about? I have only tested from the LP as I think that is where it counts more than else where. No I have not don't really know if it would help? The reason for the 120hz is looking at the chart the mains begin to roll off at 100hz, so playing the subs up to 120hz makes the chart look like it should/better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Sometimes all that measuring equipment is not very useful in the being due to the learning curve. What type of sub is this? What everyone is saying for the most part is set the subwoofer crossover at 50 and set the main speakers crossover at 50 Hz. Sorry for any confusion earlier. This should be a good reference point to work from. Make sube to level match the sub and mains speakers first with a Radio shack meter. You may even want to level match the sub 3 db lower at 72 or 73 db compared to the main speakers at 75 db. Try this and make a graph. The way it is setup currently you may have cancellation at some frequencies and reinforcement at some frequencies if the bass is to loud. Edited March 7, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Ok thanks but it seems to me I tried this before and ended up going another way because it didn't seem to work out. Maybe I was too hasty and will try again.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Ok thanks but it seems to me I tried this before and ended up going another way because it didn't seem to work out. Maybe I was too hasty and will try again.. I think you tried it when you had one sub and a nasty room null. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 I have the system warming up righ now gonna try a couple of the suggestions I got here and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Ok guys long story short I tried it at 50 and 50 and it sounded pretty darn good but, I want to hear more mid bass. so I tried 80 and 80 BINGO!!! I think we have a winner, more listening to do but, it sounds awesome right there. I am willing to bet though that the measuement will look bad or not good at this setting. Maybe that's why I have been missing it, I kept taking measurements and adjusting from them never could get it to sound like I wanted it to... Thanks to everyone who tried to help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Use the other measurement tool...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I am using two subs in my 2 channel system and was wondering what is the better way to control the subs? Should I use the subs xover? Or run the sub full range and use a seperate EQ just for the subs? I also have a seperate EQ for the mains... I don't know if anybody answered your original question. Yes, use the sub crossover and take the load off your amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 For what its worth I did the following when I had a sub. I set it to as high as possible on its crossover which I believe was in the 100 range. I then use the active crossover to send it only signal below 38 because that's where it seemed the Jub cabs rolled off. The sub wasn't doing much but once I had the levels right it seemed to work quite well. I do something very similar as well. It seems like a sin to cut my mains off because they do so well down to 40hz. The sub fills in below that and works very well. No bloat, no cancellation. It just so happens that it's pretty much the same as hi-passing my mains since they go down to 36hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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