Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC

[willland]

Anyone tried one of these for computer audio?

Audio Advisor has the Dragonfly v1.0 for $99.00. Audioquest now has the Dragonfly v1.2 but all indications point to the remaining stock of v1.0 are updated to v1.2.

Regardless to all that, who has used one and what do you think?

My application will be ripped WAV/MP3/WMA/FLAC, music files and Pandora, Spotify, Xbox music from a Dell XPS 8700 i7 with integrated sound card via USB to Dragonfly to Onkyo receiver via stereo RCA's. In theory, would the Dragonfly be able to extract that extra bit of detail over the integrated soundcard DAC?

Bill

Edited May 22, 2014 by willland

[CECAA850]

In theory, would the Dragonfly be able to extract that extra bit of detail over the integrated soundcard DAC?

I've always thought that outboard DAC's do a much better job than the ones installed in the computers when you buy them. There is debate on this (naturally) as with all things audio. I have an outboard DAC and don't plan on going back. There was an audible difference to me.

[billybob]

Have you listened to your computer soundcard yet?

I would give a good listen just to know the diff. when you should get an outboard DAC.

Have heard good things about the Dragonfly.

Looks like a decent price to me.

Sort of in the market myself for a replacement for my MSII.

Agree generally with the statement that an outboard sounds better than computer soundcard.

Let us know, if you want what you choose.

Thanks

[willland]

Have you listened to your computer soundcard yet?

I would give a good listen just to know the diff. when you should get an outboard DAC.

Of course, listen everyday.

Have heard good things about the Dragonfly. Looks like a decent price to me.

Me too and the price and simplicity are the biggest draws.

Bill

[billybob]

Thanks, and bump! Just know some have tried it...

[LarryC]

Regardless to all that, who has used one and what do you think?

See my comment on the D/F in the nearby thread https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/150139-dac-or-amp-which-is-more-likely-to-cause/. I have both the 1.0 and 1.2 but have not compared them.

The 1.0 did an odd thing -- it clarified and improved the musical output through the PC's INTERNAL speakers, just by being plugged into one of its USB ports but not feeding any external speakers. The 1.2 cuts out the internal speakers, as it's supposed to.

Audioquest says I'm imagining things, but I and my very sharp-eared music teacher disagree!

Edited May 21, 2014 by LarryC

[Chris A]

HDMI from the laptop to the Onkyo would be superior in that you wouldn't be sending analog output over an unbalanced RCA cable. Additionally, you'll get the chance to play more than two channels.

[willland]

HDMI from the laptop to the Onkyo would be superior in that you wouldn't be sending analog output over an unbalanced RCA cable.

It's an older(2002) non HDMI receiver with mediocre onboard DACs so HDMI not an option.

USB>>>Dragonfly>>>3.5mm/stereo RCA>>>Onkyo

Additionally, you'll get the chance to play more than two channels.

Only "need" 2-channel but can use Onkyo's DSPs for multichannel if I want to.

Bill

Edited May 22, 2014 by willland

[bobdog]

HDMI from the laptop to the Onkyo would be superior in that you wouldn't be sending analog output over an unbalanced RCA cable. Additionally, you'll get the chance to play more than two channels.

Much higher levels of jitter over HDMI

[Chris A]

HDMI from the laptop to the Onkyo would be superior in that you wouldn't be sending analog output over an unbalanced RCA cable. Additionally, you'll get the chance to play more than two channels.

Much higher levels of jitter over HDMI

Not inside the Onkyo receiver - which has internal clocking. Jitter is an issue with S/PDIF only, which has suppressed clocking and is susceptible to digital-analog jitter.

Also, the relative level of digital jitter even in its worst case of first generation non-internally clocked digital buses (such as the S/PDIF) can't hold a candle to the audibility of FM distortion in direct-radiating loudspeakers of any type (including woofers):

http://www.stereophile.com/content/red-shift-doppler-distortion-loudspeakers-page-2

Edited May 22, 2014 by Chris A

[bobdog]

HDMI from the laptop to the Onkyo would be superior in that you wouldn't be sending analog output over an unbalanced RCA cable. Additionally, you'll get the chance to play more than two channels.

Much higher levels of jitter over HDMI

Not inside the Onkyo receiver - which has internal clocking. Jitter is an issue with S/PDIF only.

I have heard this. I have also read things to the contrary. I own a Integra Pre/Pro and have used it as a D/A converter in the past. I have found much better results bypassing it completely for music with an analog preamp with HT bypass, and using outboard D/A converters. Currently my main system is using a Oppo 105 fed from a mini mac server. For the price it can't be beat. In The $99 price range I would be looking at the Schitt Modi and the Dragonfly.

[Chris A]

I have found much better results bypassing it completely for music with an analog preamp with HT bypass, and using outboard D/A converters.

Computers usually come with HDMI buses nowadays - making them the least expensive alternative by far if you've got an HDMI cable.

Your comment that you get much better results not using an HDMI digital bus to the internally clocked Onkyo DACs sounds more like some other issue: you cannot get higher quality than HDMI. Analog connections always sound worse, since there are always losses, distortion, and noise on analog connections.

EDIT: BTW - I have heard issues of conversion from bitstream (native format - whatever that happens to be) to PCM - that is very audible. If you allow the Onkyo (or computer's digital output process upstream of the HDMI bus transfer) to covert to PCM before DAC output for higher-than-Redbook data rate, non-PCM digital streams, then you can have audible degradation, but it's not related to the HDMI bus or the DACs or "jitter". This is especially true for DST64 coming off a SACD.

Chris

Edited May 22, 2014 by Chris A

[bobdog]

I have found much better results bypassing it completely for music with an analog preamp with HT bypass, and using outboard D/A converters.

Computers usually come with HDMI buses nowadays - making them the least expensive alternative by far if you've got an HDMI cable.

Your comment that you get much better results not using an HDMI digital bus to the internally clocked Onkyo DACs sounds more like some other issue: you cannot get higher quality than HDMI. Analog connections always sound worse, since there are always losses, distortion, and noise on analog connections.

EDIT: BTW - I have heard issues of conversion from bitstream (native format - whatever that happens to be) to PCM - that is very audible. If you allow the Onkyo (or computer's digital output process upstream of the HDMI bus transfer) to covert to PCM before DAC output for higher-than-Redbook data rate, non-PCM digital streams, then you can have audible degradation, but it's not related to the HDMI bus or the DACs or "jitter". This is especially true for DST64 coming off a SACD.

Chris

My years of researching have led me to the opposite conclusion about HDMI. There must be a good reason almost all (maybe all for all I know) of the best converters use other methods. The only reason it is ever wanted is because SACD players will send the DSC stream over it.

I avoid the Integra completely for anything but movies and the occasional 5.1 music. I realize that there are reasons other than just digital why the dedicated two channel part of my system sounds better.

The OP has said it is not an option anyway. He needs a outboard D/A converter. I suggest async USB or firewire.

[Gerry C]

Hello Welland,

I have the dragon fly 1.2 v I am pleased with the sound . I use the jriver program to organize my music it's fairly easy to use ,I am not a computer person so if your like me you'll find it easy to use, like the other formats of music some recordings are better than others you will here the difference between them with the dragon fly , it's a inexpensive way to get in to digital .

Good luck

Gerry c

[willland]

Gerry C,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your reply. I have not yet pulled the trigger on the Dragonfly v1.0 but will very soon. Funny thing is that music from my desktop PC to my Onkyo receiver sounds pretty good with the stock built in soundcard.

Bill

[joessportster]

I have heard the ESS chips in fact I have one now as well as the chips in the Schiit dacs (have one of those also) one thing to consider is how do you like your music conveyed

In other words are you a resolution detail freak or prefer to have a more warm musical detailed presentation

If you are in for resolution the ESS is better at resolution but also brighter more analytical

The schiit modi is more musical with a good bit of detail

[willland]

In other words are you a resolution detail freak or prefer to have a more warm musical detailed presentation

If you are in for resolution the ESS is better at resolution but also brighter more analytical The schiit modi is more musical with a good bit of detail

I like the warmness some rigs can produce but prefer detail and resolution. Funny thing is my spare bedroom rig with the Integra DTM-40.4/Heresys combo is a bit of both, neutral/warmish with gobs of detail in the mids and highs.

Bill