"Automotive" subs vs. home audio subs

[Paducah Home Theater]

Well I"m not impressed with the video with the girl's hair blowing. I think it's pretty frikkin' stupid. Has nothing to do with enjoying music with reasonable fidelity. Just sound effects and ear destruction. Those who like that sort of thing, have at it with the wasted dollars, watts, woofer motors and cubic feet of space. It's all about a loudness contest and not musical enjoyment.

I've been to several SPL competitions. Its quite a bit of fun, assuming you like rap music at least. The only thing I don't like is that nowadays the top guys simply belch out a short sine wave burp as to get peak performance. I think that's lame. We used to have to play actual music and it was almost considered cheating if you tuned your ports to take advantage of a particular song. The guys in the SPL stuff were the same guys competing in the normal stuff where they consider imaging, asthetics, overall frequency response, etc. It's not the same anymore, its evolved into specialized drag racing of sorts. Normal guys who have a good sounding stereo can't really compete anymore.

Edited February 9, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[angusruler]

 

thanks for letting me vent. really pisses me off to hear some of the ignorant comments I hear aboot car audio subs here!

 

You are exceptional in saying you want lots of clean bass. Most of the cars that stop next to me at a red light either have gross distortion in their car systems because it's clipping like crazy, or they have one note bass that drives me up the wall, hence my "ignorant," yet statistically observed comment about the 50 Hz. bass (which also statistically read and observed.

 

If being "pissed off' about ignorance on this board were a feeling everyone shared, we would have all left a long time ago.

 

So, don't get pissed off, educate us with more than opinion, which is pretty worthless, unless you have DATA to back it up like Mike did. Thanks fellow Canuck! 

 

drives me crazy also.

 

luckily one of the bad habits I had, that I lost when I got sober is staying pissed........I say the serenity prayer and move on!

[Frzninvt]

^{I competed in IASCA from '95 - '97 in the Novice and Amateur 1-150W class.  I ran an HiFonics Series VIII ISIS 50W + 50W high current amp (550W into 1 Ohm mono) to a pair of Atomic HPW-1094's in a Montana Pro band pass box custom built into the well of my 1994 Camaro  The slotted port used the steep contour of the rear hatch window to further enhance the bass response.  I used an Audio Control Epicenter to really bring out the ultra low's out of it.  I was more into the sound quality aspect of things but was still capable of generating 136 - 141db during the SPL portion of the competition.  The front stage was 4 Morel MW-166 mid bass woofers, 4 Polk Audio MM-3000 tweeters with custom networks (HiFonics Series VIII Ulysses 25W + 25W).  A center channel using a Vifa D75M midrange and an L-pad using a summed signal from the L & R outputs.  Alpine 7914 Source with a Clarion 900 SEQ and a DBX 3BX-DS 3 band range controller.}

 

^{Prior to that I had a Subaru Legacy wagon with a dual clamshell isobaric box built out of 1" MDF with 4 Vifa P10-W00 woofers (home speakers).  That thing was tuned ultra low.  I think the FS of the Vifa woofers was like 19-23Hz.  I had people marveling at the clarity of the bass.  I did a short stint with a pair of Dynaudio 12" MW-100's?  They did not fair well and I blew one of them and Madisound would not cover it, hence the reason for going to the Vifa's.}

 

^{When done correctly bass in a car can be deep, clean and clear.  It is the kids with the 12 men beating on a rubber raft bass that give car audio a bad name.  All the premier companies of old Orion, a/d/s, HiFonics, Phoneix Gold, etc. have been bought out and are now peddling Chinese made crap.}

Edited February 9, 2015 by Frzninvt

[Paducah Home Theater]

All the premier companies of old Orion, a/d/s, HiFonics, Phoneix Gold, etc. have been bought out and are now peddling Chinese made crap.

 

  Unless I've got my brands mixed up, I'm pretty sure Phoenix Gold has always been crap.  As way back as 1992 they were making these amps with ridiculous specs that you would never see in the real world, it was like theoretical peak or something and they tried to pass it off like it was RMS.  

Edited February 9, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[DaveWJr]

Wiring it up.

Wait a minute, are you BJ Fisher from Fisher Customs, or did you purchase one of his enclosures?

[CECAA850]

 

Wiring it up.

Wait a minute, are you BJ Fisher from Fisher Customs, or did you purchase one of his enclosures?

 

 

 

He built the empty enclosure.

[CECAA850]

I bought that box and a sealed 10" box from him.  After looking them over I decided that I could probably build something like that as opposed to paying someone to do it.  I've been building subs ever since.

[DaveWJr]

Ah, got it. I designed a few enclosures for him before he started his own business. He was or perhaps still is a huge fan of using Trupan instead of regular MDF which is fairly unique. Can't find that stuff easily around here.

 

This was many a year ago back in my car audio days.

Edited February 12, 2015 by DaveWJr

[CECAA850]

I've always enjoyed interacting with him in the past.  Seems like a great guy with a real passion for what he does.  As far as I know he had someone design his subs and he built off the plans but I could be wrong.

[gentlejax]

 

All the premier companies of old Orion, a/d/s, HiFonics, Phoneix Gold, etc. have been bought out and are now peddling Chinese made crap.

 

  Unless I've got my brands mixed up, I'm pretty sure Phoenix Gold has always been crap.  As way back as 1992 they were making these amps with ridiculous specs that you would never see in the real world, it was like theoretical peak or something and they tried to pass it off like it was RMS.  

 

You definitely got your brand wrong as Phoenix Gold was one of the top amplifier makers with their gold plated Zero Point amps and MS series amps. The boards not the amps themselves.  They rated their stuff very low and were very accurate but their thing was sound quality not over inflated watts.   Ive owned hundreds of amps as it was kinf of an addiction to me and 33yrs of buying amps I know what was or wasnt junk.   They actually still make some decent stuff now. they were sold and sold again and part of the original team of engineers are still helping with the design.  Yes they are made in China but improvements over the last 10yrs in quality control has made that a none issue.  still quality amps being massed produced and labeled various brands but with same internal boards.  Phoenix Gold / Soundstream and Precision Power are still highly sought after 20yrs later from their heyday.  There is a reason those 25yr old amps are working still and average new amps will never last that long.

[Bryant0086]

 It is a little tougher to find square, metallic purple coned drivers in the home theater market, I must say.  ^___^ It is good to know though, that the drivers can be very similar. You see car audio stuff clearance priced much more often than stuff geared for home audio. 

 

  Bryant

[CECAA850]

 It is a little tougher to find square, metallic purple coned drivers in the home theater market, I must say.  ^___^ It is good to know though, that the drivers can be very similar. You see car audio stuff clearance priced much more often than stuff geared for home audio. 

 

  Bryant

 

 

I'm currently building a 17 Hz tapped horn sub for HT.  It uses a car 15" driver.

[Bryant0086]

 

 It is a little tougher to find square, metallic purple coned drivers in the home theater market, I must say.  ^___^ It is good to know though, that the drivers can be very similar. You see car audio stuff clearance priced much more often than stuff geared for home audio. 

 

  Bryant

 

 

I'm currently building a 17 Hz tapped horn sub for HT.  It uses a car 15" driver.

 

  Cool !! It isn't square and metallic purple is it ? J/k. In all seriousness, I like bang for the buck, and I bet that driver was. Would I be wrong ? 

 

   Bryant

[Paducah Home Theater]

All the premier companies of old Orion, a/d/s, HiFonics, Phoneix Gold, etc. have been bought out and are now peddling Chinese made crap.

 

  Unless I've got my brands mixed up, I'm pretty sure Phoenix Gold has always been crap.  As way back as 1992 they were making these amps with ridiculous specs that you would never see in the real world, it was like theoretical peak or something and they tried to pass it off like it was RMS.

You definitely got your brand wrong as Phoenix Gold was one of the top amplifier makers with their gold plated Zero Point amps and MS series amps. The boards not the amps themselves.  They rated their stuff very low and were very accurate but their thing was sound quality not over inflated watts.   Ive owned hundreds of amps as it was kinf of an addiction to me and 33yrs of buying amps I know what was or wasnt junk.   They actually still make some decent stuff now. they were sold and sold again and part of the original team of engineers are still helping with the design.  Yes they are made in China but improvements over the last 10yrs in quality control has made that a none issue.  still quality amps being massed produced and labeled various brands but with same internal boards.  Phoenix Gold / Soundstream and Precision Power are still highly sought after 20yrs later from their heyday.  There is a reason those 25yr old amps are working still and average new amps will never last that long.

I was probably thinking about Pyramid. They even had a "gold" line.

[Paducah Home Theater]

It is a little tougher to find square, metallic purple coned drivers in the home theater market, I must say.

The square cones were invented in a factory about 5 miles from my house in Kentucky, I know guys who built them. They were actually groundbreaking at least at the time. They were like the second generation of the Kicker SoloBaric's, which required a tiny box, but also the square shape increased surface area, so applications like behind a single cab truck's seats suddenly you could get a heck of a lot more thump than what was traditional. However, shortly after that Kicker moved manufacturing to China, changed the cones to the plastic looking stuff, and they became pretty goofy looking. I don't know if they are still popular or not but I kind of think they became more of what a 16 year old would consider a fashion statement to be. The Credence factory retained rights to make them and tried to sell these exact same subs but rebranded as their own stuff but the brand never took off due to a lack of decent marketing.

Edited February 17, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[CECAA850]

I like bang for the buck, and I bet that driver was. Would I be wrong ?

 

The driver is a great bang for the buck driver.  It's an Alpine SWS15.

[ClaudeJ1]

On 1/12/2015 at 8:29 PM, angusruler said:

 

[efzauner]

I don't think we need to get into us vs them.  I love both.  I used to own an consumer electronics shop and sold HT, Audio, and Car audio.  The reps loved both too.  For most sound quality installations auto subs are pretty similar to home subs.  Max excursion. Fr, Vas etc.  The car subs are tuned to higher F due to small car gain vs home theatre.  Because of higher tuning, Q may also be different. One sub by Infinity actually has various inserts to change the Q.  For home use, we do know that different subs have different qualities aimed at HT or audiophile. Same things for car audio. Quality vs high output. For SPL of course they will use higher order bandpass designs.  Maybe not so good for Sound Quality.   Competition subs will be different with massive Xmax and magnets, VC for mega power handling etc. 

 

In terms of electronics, you would be surprised. Older analog  RockFordFosgate amps are all Haffler designs inside! My Pioneer amps are B&O  ICE inside!  Modern SQ systems have DSP electronic crossovers, response and time allignment compete with headset microphone not much different from HT systems.  Mine is made by JBL... you know Harman Internation.. Some of the best installs use ScanSpeak Revelator bass, mids and tweets bi and triamped with eletronic Xovers. JL makes both some of the best car subwoofers as well as the FATHOM line of homes subs. They may even use the same drivers. Expensive Stuff you find on high end home speakers. HG guys. So lets not poopoo the car audio guys ok.  They have a real crappy environment to work with and yet sounds will rival home systems.