Opened up my Dad's Heresy I's...puzzled

[mboxler]

They are now mine.  No tags on back, but stamped serial numbers 142X720 and 142X721.  1982's I believe.

 

Walnut

 

The crossovers are E2's, but the number 2 is stamped next to the red E.

 

K-77-M

K-52-H

K-22-R

 

What I find odd is that the crossover on 720 is mounted on the right side

of the cabinet (looking from the back).  The crossover on 721 is mounted 

on the left side.  Is this unusual?  Because of this, the wires from the crossover

to the drivers on the 720 speaker crisscross each other.  Worse yet, the wire

from the crossover to the K-52-H had a loose square knot, which I would think

would add inductance (?).

 

Two other questions.  I can't read the value stamped on the woofer inductor.  Can someone

enlighten me?  Also, is the K-22-R a 10 ohm driver?  I measure around 7.5 ohm DCR.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[jimjimbo]

K-52-H had a loose square knot,

 

 

Ah, must have been previously owned by a lumberjack....

[moray james]

the K52H is a Hepner driver. Klipsch bought Hepner and re tooled the K52 into what is in use today. Some say the K52H is the best of the lot. Best regards Moray James.

[mustang guy]

They are now mine.  No tags on back, but stamped serial numbers 142X720 and 142X721.  1982's I believe.

 

Walnut

 

The crossovers are E2's, but the number 2 is stamped next to the red E.

 

K-77-M

K-52-H

K-22-R

 

What I find odd is that the crossover on 720 is mounted on the right side

of the cabinet (looking from the back).  The crossover on 721 is mounted 

on the left side.  Is this unusual?  Because of this, the wires from the crossover

to the drivers on the 720 speaker crisscross each other.  Worse yet, the wire

from the crossover to the K-52-H had a loose square knot, which I would think

would add inductance (?).

 

Two other questions.  I can't read the value stamped on the woofer inductor.  Can someone

enlighten me?  Also, is the K-22-R a 10 ohm driver?  I measure around 7.5 ohm DCR.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

Doubtful. The K-22-K is an 8 ohm driver w/6.9ohm dcr.

[ClaudeJ1]

 

They are now mine.  No tags on back, but stamped serial numbers 142X720 and 142X721.  1982's I believe.

 

Walnut

 

The crossovers are E2's, but the number 2 is stamped next to the red E.

 

K-77-M

K-52-H

K-22-R

 

What I find odd is that the crossover on 720 is mounted on the right side

of the cabinet (looking from the back).  The crossover on 721 is mounted 

on the left side.  Is this unusual?  Because of this, the wires from the crossover

to the drivers on the 720 speaker crisscross each other.  Worse yet, the wire

from the crossover to the K-52-H had a loose square knot, which I would think

would add inductance (?).

 

Two other questions.  I can't read the value stamped on the woofer inductor.  Can someone

enlighten me?  Also, is the K-22-R a 10 ohm driver?  I measure around 7.5 ohm DCR.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

Doubtful. The K-22-K is an 8 ohm driver w/6.9ohm dcr.

 

Closer to 11 ohms, actually.

[mungkiman]

Photos?

[mungkiman]

I ask, because I thought the "R" designation was for "Repair" or "Replacement"...

[mustang guy]

 

 

They are now mine.  No tags on back, but stamped serial numbers 142X720 and 142X721.  1982's I believe.

 

Walnut

 

The crossovers are E2's, but the number 2 is stamped next to the red E.

 

K-77-M

K-52-H

K-22-R

 

What I find odd is that the crossover on 720 is mounted on the right side

of the cabinet (looking from the back).  The crossover on 721 is mounted 

on the left side.  Is this unusual?  Because of this, the wires from the crossover

to the drivers on the 720 speaker crisscross each other.  Worse yet, the wire

from the crossover to the K-52-H had a loose square knot, which I would think

would add inductance (?).

 

Two other questions.  I can't read the value stamped on the woofer inductor.  Can someone

enlighten me?  Also, is the K-22-R a 10 ohm driver?  I measure around 7.5 ohm DCR.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

Doubtful. The K-22-K is an 8 ohm driver w/6.9ohm dcr.

 

Closer to 11 ohms, actually.

 

Claude, is this incorrect: I ask, because I maintain the T/S thread, and I have it listed as 8ohms.

 

Edited September 14, 2014 by mustang guy

[ClaudeJ1]

Claude, is this incorrect: I ask, because I maintain the T/S thread, and I have it listed as 8ohms.

 

I probably should have said "average 11 ohms across the operating frequencies of interest" If you look at the  DCR it's 6.9, which is the highest I've ever seen for a supposed "8 ohm" driver.

 

It's been a long time since I've looked at the impedance curve of a Heresy 1 woofer with the choke in place, but it seems approx. 11 ohms is what I remember.

 

I remember PWK's "Dope from Hope" about the higher impedance of a Heresy creating LESS IM distortion in an amplifier vs. an 8 ohm resistor. But it's more of a historical perspective rather then modern application, since I think all Heresy 1's should be modified with a K-42 or Eminence Delta Pro 12A, ported (or not), and the E type Xover changed to a B type Cornwall Network.

 

This give a better tonal balance and definition  in the midrange ("the midrange is where we live"...PWK) and lowers distortion by way of 3 db higher efficiency of the high BL woofer.

 

See my Heretical Heresy/Baby Cornwall mod. or ask JimJimbo for feedback, since he now owns my original modded ones.

Edited September 14, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[mboxler]

Sorry for the late pics.

 

I assumed this was a Rola woofer, but could not find specs.

 

The woofer inductor stamps appear to be 23-L.  2.3 mH???

 

You can see the stamped 2 next to the red E on the crossover.

 

The picture on the right has the knot in the squawker wire.  Even with the woofer 

wires disconnected, it's a rats nest compared to the speaker with the crossover

mounted on the left.

 

 

[jimjimbo]

 

Claude, is this incorrect: I ask, because I maintain the T/S thread, and I have it listed as 8ohms.

 

I probably should have said "average 11 ohms across the operating frequencies of interest" If you look at the  DCR it's 6.9, which is the highest I've ever seen for a supposed "8 ohm" driver.

 

It's been a long time since I've looked at the impedance curve of a Heresy 1 woofer with the choke in place, but it seems approx. 11 ohms is what I remember.

 

I remember PWK's "Dope from Hope" about the higher impedance of a Heresy creating LESS IM distortion in an amplifier vs. an 8 ohm resistor. But it's more of a historical perspective rather then modern application, since I think all Heresy 1's should be modified with a K-42 or Eminence Delta Pro 12A, ported (or not), and the E type Xover changed to a B type Cornwall Network.

 

This give a better tonal balance and definition  in the midrange ("the midrange is where we live"...PWK) and lowers distortion by way of 3 db higher efficiency of the high BL woofer.

 

See my Heretical Heresy/Baby Cornwall mod. or ask JimJimbo for feedback, since he now owns my original modded ones.

 

Um, huh?  Say that again?

[mustang guy]

Sorry for the late pics.

 

I assumed this was a Rola woofer, but could not find specs.

 

The woofer inductor stamps appear to be 23-L.  2.3 mH???

 

You can see the stamped 2 next to the red E on the crossover.

 

The picture on the right has the knot in the squawker wire.  Even with the woofer 

wires disconnected, it's a rats nest compared to the speaker with the crossover

mounted on the left.

I don't think this jumble would have any effect on the sound, but could the EM field of the speaker magnets proximity to the crossover components influence output?

 

It is a simple fix. Take the rats nest network out, and move it to the proper side. It's just wood screws...

 

You have an E-2 crossover. Here is a diagram:

 

 

Here is an E type crossover:

 

One last thing. Those capacitors probably should be replaced. Bob Crites, a trusted forum member, sells them. Here is a link:

 

http://www.critesspeakers.com/crossover_repair_kits.html "REBUILD KIT FOR (pair) KLIPSCH TYPE E-2 CROSSOVERS:  $43.00 (plus $6 shipping)"

Edited September 15, 2014 by mustang guy

[Boxx]

_{I also had an issue with one of my Heresy speakers..  When I opened it up out popped Pedro....}

 

 

_{"Sall Right"}

 

_{http://youtu.be/mUk1zYtTpZM}

 

_{(I once read that Pedro and Senor Wences really amused PWK)}

 

_{Now back to the topic at hand....}

Edited September 15, 2014 by Boxx

[mboxler]

Thanks for the info.

 

I'm thinking about building my own crossovers, so the K-22-R impedance is important.

 

As I understand it, the 33uf cap was necessary due to a squawker change (K-55-M to K-52-H?).  

 

I assume that they wanted to use up the "E" labels before going to the "E2" labels, hence the stamped "2".

 

I remeasured the K-22-R DCR...7.9 ohms.  Seems to be an 11 ohm driver to me.  

 

Mike

[Marvel]

Did the K52 get used before they moved to the K53 on the Heresy II series?

[Don Richard]

I probably should have said "average 11 ohms across the operating frequencies of interest" If you look at the DCR it's 6.9, which is the highest I've ever seen for a supposed "8 ohm" driver. It's been a long time since I've looked at the impedance curve of a Heresy 1 woofer with the choke in place, but it seems approx. 11 ohms is what I remember.

 

11 ohms is pretty close - the Dope From Hope, Vol.16, No.8, Sept, 1977 shows a high of 34.1 ohms @ 66 Hz and a low of 10.2 ohms @ 140 Hz. The bass driver may be rated 8 ohms but that changes whenever it is placed within an enclosure.

[ClaudeJ1]

Thanks for the info.

 

I'm thinking about building my own crossovers, so the K-22-R impedance is important.

 

As I understand it, the 33uf cap was necessary due to a squawker change (K-55-M to K-52-H?).  

 

I assume that they wanted to use up the "E" labels before going to the "E2" labels, hence the stamped "2".

 

I remeasured the K-22-R DCR...7.9 ohms.  Seems to be an 11 ohm driver to me.  

 

Mike

What you have is what I call a Heresy 1.5 and not a 1.0, which has the E network and K55V. I have not modded one of those based on personal preference.

[mustang guy]

Thanks for the info.

 

I'm thinking about building my own crossovers, so the K-22-R impedance is important.

 

As I understand it, the 33uf cap was necessary due to a squawker change (K-55-M to K-52-H?).  

 

I assume that they wanted to use up the "E" labels before going to the "E2" labels, hence the stamped "2".

 

I remeasured the K-22-R DCR...7.9 ohms.  Seems to be an 11 ohm driver to me.  

 

Mike

If you do, you can sell your E2's for around $50 for the set.

 

You should really think about recapping them and trying a Crites tweeter before you design and build a whole new network. You are sort of reinventing the wheel.

 

I see that the E diagram I posted has K-22-E 11 Omhs. The LEAP information also posted here indicates it is an 8 with a DCR of 6.9ohms. Your measurement of 7.9 indicates it may be anywhere from 9-11 ohms. Have you measured both of your K22's?

 

I went on Ebay and looked at K22's for sale, and completed listings. What I found was:

 

K22-EF 7.3 ohms

K22-EF 7.2 ohms

K-22 Anlico 7.7 ohms

K-22-E 7.6 ohms

K-22-K 7.3 ohms

 

There were a couple that were 9 or above, but I figure they had some problems to be that high. I don't know what all this tells us. Perhaps there is somebody here who could shed some light...

[mboxler]

I had the alligator clips on my DMM the first time I measured the DCR.  When I removed the clips and measured with the "needles", the DCR on the woofers measured around 6.9 and 7.0 ohms.  The clips must add some resistance.  I hate that!

 

Sounds like the K-22-R specs are similar to the K-22-K.  

 

Thanks Mustang guy!

 

Mike

[djk]

.

Edited September 16, 2014 by djk