Choosing and integrating a subwoofer into a 5.1 system

[CECAA850]

Better than nothing, sure.  Fill that area with bass?  Not likely.  I'd also guess they were a little liberal in regards to specs although that's usually not their M.O.

[Scrappydue]

What about a ported vertical mini Marty with a si 18?

Read here and I posted a pic too:

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/151214-sub-recomendations/page-2

[Paducah Home Theater]

What effects the voices most likely is the fact the cone is doing other stuff as well as the voices. So you got some one talking and them some 50hz boom and through the same cone, there ya go distortion.

Maybe that would make it worse but what I experienced was literally non-stop, sounded like somebody was talking through a tuba. Female voices were fine but low male voices just wasn't right. Part of my problem may be my center channel "stands" though, I have not had time to build a proper shelf/stand/box/whatever so I've been using other speakers. It may be possible that box resonances below 80 hz are actually coming through the cabinets they are sitting on. I would really like to run the center on a isolation stand to rule this out.

 

And not so sure about the comment on two mediocre subs vs one badass sub.

Dunno, but SVS pushes this. Call them up and say you're debating one ultra or two pb2000's, they'll tell you to get the two mediocre ones hands down. Other people have confirmed this.

HOWEVER, SVS also highly recommends a receiver with XT32 / SubEQ if you run two. They told me to stick with one nicer one if you can't run a nice receiver that has Audessey with SubEQ. Two with SubEQ can apparently smooth things out but without it two might just make things worse.

Edited October 29, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[JiminSTL]

What about a ported vertical mini Marty with a si 18?

Read here and I posted a pic too:

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/151214-sub-recomendations/page-2

 

Scrappy,  I like the idea of the vertical box, however, the 24" depth is an aesthetic issue.  That is one reason I was inquiring about the Stonehenge, at 16" depth.  

 

Then, we get back to what appears to be the consensus:  that I will be hard-pressed to get the HT effects I want (esp. at my lower listening levels) with "only" the 1 sub in my room . . . .

[Scrappydue]

Easy then. Keep your Svs you have right now and buy a couple tactile transducers. Aura or maybe even the Clark if your feelin froggy. Then you'll get that tactile at any volume you want.

[JiminSTL]

Would like to have a good (spelled "b-i-g") SVS, but don't.  Have a Klipsch Sub-10 subwoofer, and as of yesterday, a Klipsch LT-10 subwoofer.

[Scrappydue]

Oh I thought you had a Svs for some reason. I talk to so many guys over text about speakers i sometimes forget who has what. Lol. Well then if I were you I would get a descent sub but add the transducers. That would give you the shake your wanting.

[Heritage_Head]

Or get 1 sub near field (right next to you). Long time ago I had a 10" supercube1 sub set up near field. And that little sub pounded bass into you when its that close with very little effort. If you can tuck one sub right against the back of your lp. Don't face the driver at the lp. Have it fire sideways. Then run your other sub up front. You will get all the chest pounding bass you want and some. 

Edited October 30, 2014 by Pro-Cinema_Head

[JiminSTL]

Or get 1 sub near field (right next to you). Long time ago I had a 10" supercube1 sub set up near field. And that little sub pounded bass into you when its that close with very little effort. If you can tuck one sub right against the back of your lp. Don't face the driver at the lp. Have it fire sideways. Then run your other sub up front. You will get all the chest pounding bass you want and some. 

 

Hmmmm, Pro,

 

Interesting.  Need to understand better, though:

 

• I have a 7.1 AVR (Pioneer Elite SC-35).  Does "7.1" offer the opportunity for 1 sub--only?
• Generally, what is considered "nearfield"?
• If I am able to use 2 subs, might I use my newly-acquired Klipsch LT-10 (1 active 10" driver, 2 10" radiators) as the "nearfield" (within 3 feet of where my wife and I sit, and about 11 feet from where others might sit);
• Then add a "real" sub for placement against a wall/corner--maybe of the size that Scrappy is thinking (15" - 18");
• You mentioned adding another sub "up front".  Could I position it against the back wall, at the back end of the large room, looking forward

I do appreciate the ideas that keep coming my way!!!

[Heritage_Head]

You can get a rca splitter and run as many subs as you want off one sub out. I run 3 off of one. notice in the pic how the sub is behind the lp. Thats near field. 3ft should work. If not might need to be closer. You don't have to put the 2nd sub in front. Find best spot for it. 

[Paducah Home Theater]

Does "7.1" offer the opportunity for 1 sub--only?

It's usually a mono signal regardless of whether it is 7.1 or 7.2. The only difference is when you have SubEQ on Audessey XT32 systems, you can equalize each output separately to fix problems. EDIT: as mentioned above, just use a splitter to get two RCA outputs from only one coming out of your receiver.

 

• Generally, what is considered "nearfield"?

It's a fancy and short way of saying close to the listening position.

 

• If I am able to use 2 subs, might I use my newly-acquired Klipsch LT-10 (1 active 10" driver, 2 10" radiators) as the "nearfield" (within 3 feet of where my wife and I sit, and about 11 feet from where others might sit);

Anything is possible and doable, but keep in mind that mixing sub types can open up a whole new can of worms, especially if you start mixing up sealed, ported, and passive radiator setups, just potentially makes things more complex and can cancel each other out due to phasing issues.

Edited October 30, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Paducah Home Theater]

5.       Ear-splitting volume is not what I am after.  What I want is to bring the low end of movie frequencies into the experience, while listening at my typical volumes ranging from -35 to -25/-23 (real “action” movies).

I keep thinking about this. After calibrating with Audessey XT32 and setting up the sub levels to where they're supposed to be, I have watched "Non-Stop", Transformers 4, the Metallica concert movie, Pink's concert, and Tombstone, all between -30 and -25 db. It's literally barely tickling my subs even on bass heavy sequences, yet I can hear even the deepest frequencies. The only thing that gets them going at all is the intro to Transformers 4 where the spaceships appear to be rumbling right past the camera's but even then they are just at a light jog. I just think you're over-thinking things if you're truly after this kind of volume and also wish to have your subs be integrated properly and not have a blaring sub on top of mild sounds from your mains.

If you want your seats to shake, you're going to have to get a heck of a lot louder than that. You're going to have to add a bass shaker or something, because this volume in a properly calibrated system just is not going to cut it. Damage to the room as you were asking before before just isn't even on the radar if it is set up properly.

Edited October 30, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[JiminSTL]

Pro and Metro,

 

Good ideas.  Feel like I'm getting somewhere.

 

Given:

• the large cubic footage (approx. 6500 including the great room itself, the adjoining dining area to the side, and the pass through to the kitchen--addtl. footage)
• IF the Klipsch LT-10 with its 1 active and 2 passive radiators will work for "nearfield"
• I buy a DIY enclosed box for a, say 15" subwoofer, and put it at the back end of the room against a wall, and about 5' behind from where I sit, and 10' from where my wife sits, would that be likely to "fill the bill"? 
• Would it matter that what I buy/build for box purposes, and match w/ an appropriate subwoofer is not the same manufacturer as the Klipsch LT-10 nearfield?
• Am I likely to have all kinds of soundwave difficulties, or is it something that has a high probability of working?

 

Also, am wondering if I have the two subs for their different purposes ("nearfield" and general/greater room-filling power), is it possible to SAFELY and practically adjust their settings to be more active (relative to the volume of the other 5 speakers) when the signal is delivered?  And to tone down to "normal" when there is no gunfire, explosions, Godzilla stomping around, and other such good stuff)?

 

I think that if my wife feels she has to constantly raise her voice simply to make comments (all the time, not with the good sounds going off), then, I am likely to experience some "headwind" to the idea of the kind of sub experience I really would like.  And the truth is that I am not into high volume for its sake, but rather only when the particular music or movie scene calls for it.

 

Again, your thoughtful and specific comments are very welcome!

[JiminSTL]

Pro, nice looking room, BTW!

[Paducah Home Theater]

I think that if my wife feels she has to constantly raise her voice simply to make comments (all the time, not with the good sounds going off), then, I am likely to experience some "headwind" to the idea of the kind of sub experience I really would like.  And the truth is that I am not into high volume for its sake, but rather only when the particular music or movie scene calls for it.

IF calibrated properly and IF you really are listening at -25 to -30 on a properly calibrated system that really is that level as you claim, then this won't be an issue even with subs. If you have to raise your voice it will be because of all the other speakers, not just because you added a sub or two. You can talk over bass easier than anything else anyway even if it was louder.

Edited October 30, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[JiminSTL]

"Calibrated"?  What I used when I set things up on my Pioneer AVR was a microphone, and set the volume and distance.

 

Listen on "extended stereo" most of the time, so I have more equal, enveloping dialogue and music.  Means that I do not need to raise the volume as much in order to compensate for the distance of the fronts from my MLP.

 

That, and the old "Mark 1 eardrum".

 

I suppose that I am providing correct information when I mention a specific level or range of listening.  The number I provide is what I see on my receiver.

 

And, for just general listening levels of music, for instance, it often is about -35 to -33.  Often, British accents will cause me to turn it up some to understand better.  If I want to really appreciate some movie action, I will celebrate at -28 to -23.

 

Please advise if I am using these numbers in an incorrect way!

[Paducah Home Theater]

"Calibrated"?  What I used when I set things up on my Pioneer AVR was a microphone, and set the volume and distance.

 

I suppose that I am providing correct information when I mention a specific level or range of listening.  The number I provide is what I see on my receiver.

 

And, for just general listening levels of music, for instance, it often is about -35 to -33.  Often, British accents will cause me to turn it up some to understand better.  If I want to really appreciate some movie action, I will celebrate at -28 to -23.

 

Please advise if I am using these numbers in an incorrect way!

 

I say calibrated because straight out of the box those numbers won't be right.  For example after running Audessey, my mains were turned down to -8 db and my center was at -10 db.  Running -25 db out of the box before I did this was actually more like -15.  Scrappy had to turn his LCR's down -12 db.  An actual -30 and -25 is pretty mild and will not do damage or even shake your seats good.  

Edited October 30, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[derrickdj1]

If you have an SC 35 Pioneer Elite avr, -30 will be 70-75 db when watching a movie.  I run 4 subs and bass shakers off the .1 sub output.  MCACC will get distace correct and sub distace in ft. may be off because it measure the time of sound to reach the mic which may be different that the physical distance.  You will need bass shakers in that large room for a more tactile experience and -25 to -30 on the avr.