Perfect DAC, Does it EXIST ?

[A1UC]

I found a good pair off headphones works best

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[mark1101]

I have been happy with the Benchmark DACs.  I have a Benchmark DAC-1 USB that I liked so much I then purchased the DAC-2 when it came out.  I have just about everything in my system connected to the Benchmark DAC-2 and it has been bulletproof.  Been very happy with it.

 

Have been thinking about selling the DAC-1 USB since I don't use it much anymore.

[paul79]

This one should get your attention.... This is said to compete with the PS Audio DS, PDX, KillerDAC, PD, etc. and only $750!

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCUQFjABahUKEwjFoLDj-rLHAhUG0oAKHSmSAJQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gieseler.com.au%2Fpage2%2Findex.html&ei=2VDTVYXQI4akgwSppIKgCQ&usg=AFQjCNEvQz_RzOtQ0rwzWzLakXDRSnMIAg&bvm=bv.99804247,d.eXY

[Max2]

I have been happy with the Benchmark DACs.  I have a Benchmark DAC-1 USB that I liked so much I then purchased the DAC-2 when it came out.  I have just about everything in my system connected to the Benchmark DAC-2 and it has been bulletproof.  Been very happy with it.

 

Have been thinking about selling the DAC-1 USB since I don't use it much anymore.

 

 

Have you tried their matching amp with your DAC2?   

[Bubo]

This one should get your attention.... This is said to compete with the PS Audio DS, PDX, KillerDAC, PD, etc. and only $750!

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCUQFjABahUKEwjFoLDj-rLHAhUG0oAKHSmSAJQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gieseler.com.au%2Fpage2%2Findex.html&ei=2VDTVYXQI4akgwSppIKgCQ&usg=AFQjCNEvQz_RzOtQ0rwzWzLakXDRSnMIAg&bvm=bv.99804247,d.eXY

 

Since these are data devices using off the shelf chips sets, the differences are likely in the SW and error handling.

[mark1101]

...........and the analog sections, and I/O connectivity

[mark1101]

 

I have been happy with the Benchmark DACs.  I have a Benchmark DAC-1 USB that I liked so much I then purchased the DAC-2 when it came out.  I have just about everything in my system connected to the Benchmark DAC-2 and it has been bulletproof.  Been very happy with it.

 

Have been thinking about selling the DAC-1 USB since I don't use it much anymore.

 

 

Have you tried their matching amp with your DAC2?   

 

No,  I have not tried nor heard how good they sound.  I'd be interested to know if a match for Klipsch.

[Max2]

 

 

I have been happy with the Benchmark DACs.  I have a Benchmark DAC-1 USB that I liked so much I then purchased the DAC-2 when it came out.  I have just about everything in my system connected to the Benchmark DAC-2 and it has been bulletproof.  Been very happy with it.

 

Have been thinking about selling the DAC-1 USB since I don't use it much anymore.

 

 

Have you tried their matching amp with your DAC2?   

 

No,  I have not tried nor heard how good they sound.  I'd be interested to know if a match for Klipsch.

 

 

A member here has one and swears by it. He has been through quite a few SET's and other tube and SS amps from what I gathered. Supposedly, the amp matches the specs of the DAC which is very impressive.   I would love to hear that combo.

[joessportster]

 

 

I thought USB Audio standard didn't have error correction. Where are you reading that it does?

 

 

 

The problem with USB is that it requires an electrical physical connection which brings its own downside, like grounding and noise issues. This can be mitigated by using matching transformers, which really just masks the problem and could effect fidelity.

 

No perfect solution yet, but USB is the best we have.

 

http://www.audiophilleo.com/audiophilleo2.aspx

 

pricey yes but it does solve the issue of pc power to the dac if you opt for the pure power, from experience I can say it does offer a cleaner less grain SQ as well as some subjective improvements

Edited August 18, 2015 by joessportster

[Zoef]

The perfect dac, i think it's a matter of taste. For me, i'm very happy with the dddac 1794.

[pzannucci]

 

I just purchased the Essence HDACC http://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/

 

I was looking for a DAC that could do HDMI and substitute as a pre-amp with remote and analog input.  It contains the Sabre ES9012 DAC and is quite good sounding for $499 though isn't broken in yet.

 

Nice part is that if you have blu-rays you can use HDMI to get the high res PCM from them if you don't want to use a receiver or don't have a very expensive pre/pro.

 

 

Or you can purchase a really high quality used receiver or surround decoder, for Peanuts, and use it as your Digital Preamp with lots of interfaces. 120 db SN is not unusual. Pioneer Elites come to mind, just turn off the speaker outputs using the front panel. You also get standing wave cancelling, auto EQ and other room adjustments in the package.

 

Like me, if you have an old school 2 ch pure analog system, run all of the digital stuff through the surround receiver, and the tape decks, radios and phono through the analog pre amp. Or ditch your analog preamp and use the surround receiver as your preamp, you even get a remote volume control. Most have plenty of analog interface and you can get a great phono pre amp for not much $$$

 

Bubo,

 

If I showed you a picture of my setup, a newer Pioneer SC receiver is sitting behind this dac/preamp. I was using the pre-outs on it since I wanted something that did HDMI.  I purchased this DAC to see how much of a difference there was between DAC chip sets and the receiver with the built in DAC.  I would almost say the Pioneer sounds better using it's own internal amps than the XPA-2 I had it hooked up to.  Haven't tried the receiver with my Bel Canto REF1000s yet though.

I agree with you that you could have your cake and eat it too (almost).  The separates do sound better though, including this Essence HDACC (or my Anthem) than using the Pioneer and most likely most other receivers.  The pre-outs on many receivers are good but may not be up to snuff based on the other equipment down the line.

 

This DAC is pretty good, considering the Sabre es9012 built in and also give you USB which you don't find in many receivers under 2K.

[Bubo]

 

 

I just purchased the Essence HDACC http://www.essenceelectrostatic.com/

 

I was looking for a DAC that could do HDMI and substitute as a pre-amp with remote and analog input.  It contains the Sabre ES9012 DAC and is quite good sounding for $499 though isn't broken in yet.

 

Nice part is that if you have blu-rays you can use HDMI to get the high res PCM from them if you don't want to use a receiver or don't have a very expensive pre/pro.

 

 

Or you can purchase a really high quality used receiver or surround decoder, for Peanuts, and use it as your Digital Preamp with lots of interfaces. 120 db SN is not unusual. Pioneer Elites come to mind, just turn off the speaker outputs using the front panel. You also get standing wave cancelling, auto EQ and other room adjustments in the package.

 

Like me, if you have an old school 2 ch pure analog system, run all of the digital stuff through the surround receiver, and the tape decks, radios and phono through the analog pre amp. Or ditch your analog preamp and use the surround receiver as your preamp, you even get a remote volume control. Most have plenty of analog interface and you can get a great phono pre amp for not much $$$

 

Bubo,

 

If I showed you a picture of my setup, a newer Pioneer SC receiver is sitting behind this dac/preamp. I was using the pre-outs on it since I wanted something that did HDMI.  I purchased this DAC to see how much of a difference there was between DAC chip sets and the receiver with the built in DAC.  I would almost say the Pioneer sounds better using it's own internal amps than the XPA-2 I had it hooked up to.  Haven't tried the receiver with my Bel Canto REF1000s yet though.

I agree with you that you could have your cake and eat it too (almost).  The separates do sound better though, including this Essence HDACC (or my Anthem) than using the Pioneer and most likely most other receivers.  The pre-outs on many receivers are good but may not be up to snuff based on the other equipment down the line.

 

This DAC is pretty good, considering the Sabre es9012 built in and also give you USB which you don't find in many receivers under 2K.

 

 

I have an Emo DAC I use, but have never heard their amps. I am a fan of their business model, it has allowed lots of people to afford stereo, in many cases their first.

 

At one time I did swap 5 different amps staying with my Mac C-32 pre amp and the La Scalas, It was 1 mac, 3 yamahas and 1 Pioneer Receiver for grins. All sounded great, the Yamaha MX-600 and MX-800 sounded just a little bit sweeter.

[pzannucci]

Good receivers are typically Swiss army knives, sound good but not up to par with many separates.  My Pioneer sounds good as a pre/dac but for some reason I feel it is missing something and not as clean as other pre/dacs I've used, nor the new Essence HDACC.  Mind you this is using HDMI which I am trying to live with so I don't need a bunch of other wiring.

 

The HDACC will likely become a bedroom unit to use with a set of powered speakers I have and look to possibly another dac if I sway from HDMI.  My Anthem AV-30 does a pretty go job though no HDMI.  Most of these dacs, such as the Benchmark, don't include analog until they get up into the $1700 or so category though the DAC1 HDR closeout at $1295 is interesting.

 

My thoughts are the perfect dac should not have pre-ringing in the impulse response and minimal post ringing and connections for all the digital interfaces.  The new Meridian Director seems to fit that bill rather nicely for a cheap $349.  No HDMI on most all the dacs though.

 

Oh well, too many toys and not enough money 

[paul79]

Here's my theory, and believe to be the bottom line....

 

There are only a few DAC's out there, IMO, that will have a home next to a world class analog rig. Even the best digital will be a more convenient substitute, with subtle sonic compromise.

 

Here's the kicker. Analog playback cut directly to a lacquer, made into a metal master, then mother, then pressed to vinyl. This is something digital can't compete with in my opinion. Will it ever? I don't know. Depends on how good A to D converters get, but somehow I doubt it. The second that recording goes through an A to D converter, you lose something. Same can be said for converting the lacquer, to a metal master, to a mother, etc... But I believe this to be the lesser evil. Because it is still analog and or mechanical, and bares closer resemblance to the original recording. No electronics other than the recording equipment are in the way of the actual music, and no electronics are needed to pick up a signal off a vinyl record.

 

Modern digital can get very damn close though, and I am close enough with my current digital front end, that I trade for the convenience. DAC's are no longer much of a shortcoming, so long as you have a very good one. The biggest shortcoming with most peoples digital front ends is the digital source, which is just as important as the DAC.

 

What does the best vinyl playback do better sonically, than the best digital? The most obvious difference is the ability to create a true spooky realistic holographic image. An image with quiet space all around and behind the artist, as if there is an actual presence in the room with you. The best vinyl rigs do this. The best digital gets close, but not quite as good. Another thing is resolution. Biggest being ambient resolution. You get tons of this with the best vinyl rigs. Not as much or as obvious with the best digital.

 

This is all just MO based on some brainstorming, and what I have heard listening to some very high end sources. YMMV.