moray james Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 55 minutes ago, Maximus89 said: Yes he can recap the Epic speakers but that's all he'll do on them. Not sure what I'd get with SoniCaps or if there's even a need to recap. These caps on the CF don't go out of spec like the vintage heritage caps im told? Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk you would be installing better quality capacitors and or resistors than what were used in the stock networks. If you think the stock caps/resistors are fine I am not going to attempt to convince you otherwise so leave them alone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micklipsch Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Opinions on PA type amps to power CF4s vs traditional home audio gear? Needing to replace my prepro with a better one with preouts, likely going to grab something like a Pioneer SC-05. Just curious if I should try PA type stuff like QSC. Seems you get a lot of watts for the buck and have read both warm views of this and harsh views. Some say it’s a brute power vs a refined power comparison. Anyway, just looking for fresh opinions as I’m ready to make a prepro and amp purchase. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimalmo Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Lots of options. Budget? New or used? Solid state or tube? Primary listening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micklipsch Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Budget at the moment can vary if the deals are good. I'd say I wouldn't want to go north of $1,200. New is always best but I don't have much issue buying used equipment that's been taken care of, or from a vendor with a plethora of good reviews and a return policy. Solid state. At the moment it would be 2.0 stereo doing double duty with music/ cinema. I may add surround later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micklipsch Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) From all my research, I'm becoming stuck between using said budget to get a nicer AVR, such as a Denon AVR-X4500H ($1,200 new) and seeing if it suffices for now, with the option to preout a 2ch amp at a later time if I feel my lower hz music needs it. This also accomplishes almost all current tech trinkets, save for maybe Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization and 8k passthru, the latter which if pressed I could just run straight to compatible TV. Or, something like an Emotiva UMC-1 preamp that I have a line on for $300, coupled with a 2ch (QSC CX902 PA amp perhaps?) or 5ch amp (I've seen some nice Adcom and NAD amps around $4-500 on eBay, which brings things around ~$7-900). Of course doing something like this skips a lot of today's tech richness and I'd need to add another $130 to the cost for something like a Zen DAC to get hi-res music streaming. As I put thought to paper here, seems like a newer, more upscale AVR with preouts might be the wiser choice. I hope you guys can help fill in any blanks I've missed. Edited January 28, 2021 by Micklipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus89 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I wasn't too impressed with the musicality of modern AVRs so I purchased a McIntosh MX120(was looking for MX119), both the mx119 and mx120 focused on 2ch with surround as an added bonus. This was Mac made as well and not rebranded Marantz AVRs like the the MX series that followed. Of course these are pres so you'd still need your power amps. But, i chose this route along with an HDMI Dac from Essense. The Evolve II-4k with 8ch analog out to the older Mac avr. Added a cheap 4k hdr hdmi switcher and now I have all my 4k hdr devices and tv hooked up and external inputs on the mac play uncompressed original files. 5.1 is all I need though. Had a 6th rear channel with this set up too but sold that speaker. If you need more channels, you need another option. I just wanted modern hdmi audio pass-through and video with a musical AVR and added another dac for music, but I still use the HDMI dac for multichannel music too. The HDMI dac is actually pretty good for 2ch music too, but slightly too much digital glare, like the built in Mac dac, so I added a tube buffer to the left and right analog outputs from the hdmi dac and I was quite pleased, but I wanted more so went with a separate dac for music. Just an option and route for you to consider. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micklipsch Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Maximus89 said: I wasn't too impressed with the musicality of modern AVRs so I purchased a McIntosh MX120(was looking for MX119), both the mx119 and mx120 focused on 2ch with surround as an added bonus. This was Mac made as well and not rebranded Marantz AVRs like the the MX series that followed. Of course these are pres so you'd still need your power amps. But, i chose this route along with an HDMI Dac from Essense. The Evolve II-4k with 8ch analog out to the older Mac avr. Added a cheap 4k hdr hdmi switcher and now I have all my 4k hdr devices and tv hooked up and external inputs on the mac play uncompressed original files. 5.1 is all I need though. Had a 6th rear channel with this set up too but sold that speaker. If you need more channels, you need another option. I just wanted modern hdmi audio pass-through and video with a musical AVR and added another dac for music, but I still use the HDMI dac for multichannel music too. The HDMI dac is actually pretty good for 2ch music too, but slightly too much digital glare, like the built in Mac dac, so I added a tube buffer to the left and right analog outputs from the hdmi dac and I was quite pleased, but I wanted more so went with a separate dac for music. Just an option and route for you to consider. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Pretty intricate. More I ponder, more I think newer AVR doing double duty as prepro with a good 2ch amp. Seems like the most streamlined while capturing 95% of today's tech. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack R Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I'd try a pure 2 channel setup with the CF4's and see what you think. I run a Yamaha A-S801 (2 channel) with my CF3's for the following reasons: - It was not too expensive - Easy for others to use since its integrated - USB input and onboard DAC for streaming music from my mac, sounds great - Optical input for the TV, we don't watch a ton of TV/Movies however it sounds good to me in 2 channel I used to be all about surround sound, small speakers all over the room, etc.... after switching to 2 channel things are so much easier and sound so much better. The only way I'd go with an AVR is if it was for a dedicated movie room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micklipsch Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Zack R said: I'd try a pure 2 channel setup with the CF4's and see what you think. I run a Yamaha A-S801 (2 channel) with my CF3's for the following reasons: - It was not too expensive - Easy for others to use since its integrated - USB input and onboard DAC for streaming music from my mac, sounds great - Optical input for the TV, we don't watch a ton of TV/Movies however it sounds good to me in 2 channel I used to be all about surround sound, small speakers all over the room, etc.... after switching to 2 channel things are so much easier and sound so much better. The only way I'd go with an AVR is if it was for a dedicated movie room. How does that Yamaha sound with your CF3s? Plenty of headroom? Rumble the room when you want them to without the bass crapping out? I know watts from AVRs are far from equal to watts from a separate, but just wondering what your Yamaha's watts do for your CFs. I've read that these speakers really shine when doused with power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oicu812 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Micklipsch said: How does that Yamaha sound with your CF3s? Plenty of headroom? Rumble the room when you want them to without the bass crapping out? I know watts from AVRs are far from equal to watts from a separate, but just wondering what your Yamaha's watts do for your CFs. I've read that these speakers really shine when doused with power. I use a 100w Denon for my CF3's, and there is all the volume and bass you could ask for without getting any clipping or missing sound. They thump you in the chest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micklipsch Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Oicu812 said: I use a 100w Denon for my CF3's, and there is all the volume and bass you could ask for without getting any clipping or missing sound. They thump you in the chest. Separate, or dedicated amp I'm assuming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oicu812 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Micklipsch said: Separate, or dedicated amp I'm assuming? It's a 5.1 Surround receiver / amp, set to "No Subwoofer" and only 2 channel. The sound is pushed to it via fiber optic, and it is plenty. Hmmm. I wonder if I can use the extra channels to bi-amp. I will have to check for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus89 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Its strange because I had 320 wpc bridged via a McIntosh amp and my CF3s were beefy and I had all the bass I could want. I then unbridged and went back to 100wpc but trying to integrate my RSW15 sub. Enjoyed that for a while but now I went back to 320wpc without the sub and I feel like my bass is really weak and the drivers are barely waking up at moderate levels. Strangest thing. Ive been so bugged about it for the past few days. Is it all perception? I got used to a subwoofer that the normal full range of the cf3 just isn't enough or is it some setting i must have changed. I dont know and still trying to figure it out, but they sound beautiful in the midrange with my new dac and even the top end is, but the bass is really weak. Plugged my power amp straight to wall from my non current limiting power conditioner and no difference. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oicu812 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Maximus89 said: Its strange because I had 320 wpc bridged via a McIntosh amp and my CF3s were beefy and I had all the bass I could want. I then unbridged and went back to 100wpc but trying to integrate my RSW15 sub. Enjoyed that for a while but now I went back to 320wpc without the sub and I feel like my bass is really weak and the drivers are barely waking up at moderate levels. Strangest thing. Ive been so bugged about it for the past few days. Is it all perception? I got used to a subwoofer that the normal full range of the cf3 just isn't enough or is it some setting i must have changed. I dont know and still trying to figure it out, but they sound beautiful in the midrange with my new dac and even the top end is, but the bass is really weak. Plugged my power amp straight to wall from my non current limiting power conditioner and no difference. Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk It actually could be perception. It's as if you had been using a wild EQ setting, and then go back to flat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micklipsch Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Oicu812 said: It's a 5.1 Surround receiver / amp, set to "No Subwoofer" and only 2 channel. The sound is pushed to it via fiber optic, and it is plenty. Hmmm. I wonder if I can use the extra channels to bi-amp. I will have to check for this. Curious which model of Denon you're using? Mine's a 1910 rated at 90wpc, and it's absolute crap for bass-demanding music like EDM or rap. Sorta gets the job done for rock and stuff, but all in all it's just not up to the task and doing no justice to these CF4s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oicu812 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, Micklipsch said: Curious which model of Denon you're using? Mine's a 1910 rated at 90wpc, and it's absolute crap for bass-demanding music like EDM or rap. Sorta gets the job done for rock and stuff, but all in all it's just not up to the task and doing no justice to these CF4s. I will have to check. I will let you know. *some time later* It's an AVR-3802. @Micklipsch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack R Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 hours ago, Micklipsch said: How does that Yamaha sound with your CF3s? Plenty of headroom? Rumble the room when you want them to without the bass crapping out? I know watts from AVRs are far from equal to watts from a separate, but just wondering what your Yamaha's watts do for your CFs. I've read that these speakers really shine when doused with power. I haven't actually measured the power draw however I tap out way before the amp/speakers do during spirited listening. The volume knob is not linear but the highest I've had it is halfway up. The amp gets warm but not too hot. I've also heard that the CF3/4 speakers really like plenty of power and from my experience that is true, especially in a large room. My old 65w channel amp would go into protection mode if I pushed it too hard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micklipsch Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 5 hours ago, Oicu812 said: I will have to check. I will let you know. *some time later* It's an AVR-3802. @Micklipsch Old school, almost 20 years old, but, definitely a nicer one than mine. 110wpc vs my 90, and betting yours is even of a higher quality. Good archived reviews on that. 36 minutes ago, Zack R said: I haven't actually measured the power draw however I tap out way before the amp/speakers do during spirited listening. The volume knob is not linear but the highest I've had it is halfway up. The amp gets warm but not too hot. I've also heard that the CF3/4 speakers really like plenty of power and from my experience that is true, especially in a large room. My old 65w channel amp would go into protection mode if I pushed it too hard. Yup, hit the protection mode on my Denon the first night auditioning and said nope, no clip for jou. Didn't sound bad up till the shutoff, but nevertheless it's not a good thing. But the bass-demanding stuff--no go. Now it's modest listening until I get quality gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oicu812 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Micklipsch said: Old school, almost 20 years old, but, definitely a nicer one than mine. 110wpc vs my 90, and betting yours is even of a higher quality. Good archived reviews on that. I picked it up at a Salvation Army thrift store for $40. As you said, good reviews. I always pick up amps that are proper brand names, reasonably priced and have pre-outs on all channels. I also look for good quality 5 way posts on all channels to go with the good reviews. *<;o). Generally, these features are not found on lower quality amps, normally they are seen on the higher end models. Sometimes I get lucky, occasionally not. I have found that I can achieve incredible sound without spending incredible sums. It simply takes persistence and patience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micklipsch Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 49 minutes ago, Oicu812 said: I picked it up at a Salvation Army thrift store for $40. As you said, good reviews. I always pick up amps that are proper brand names, reasonably priced and have pre-outs on all channels. I also look for good quality 5 way posts on all channels to go with the good reviews. *<;o). Generally, these features are not found on lower quality amps, normally they are seen on the higher end models. Sometimes I get lucky, occasionally not. I have found that I can achieve incredible sound without spending incredible sums. It simply takes persistence and patience. Amen. Life would be a lot easier if this thing had preouts. I don’t really need most of the new tech at the moment as I’m still running an older plasma (Pioneer Elite) in the living room. No rush to change either since it still looks great. Definitely in the new house, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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