ToolShedAmps Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 OK, now to give you some way to actually measure the math against empirical data (your real-world expectations) without "breaking-the-bank". I will assume you have a "smart-phone" or tablet (with microphone) such as an iPad or Android device? Go to your "app store" of choice and search for: SPLnFFT Download it and install it on your device. This is a fairly accurate db meter that you can now use from your listening position to determine actual volume levels as they relate to the power requirements suggested. Select the "C-Weighted" button, and make sure that "Live" is highlighted in the upper left corner of the app. Listen to a variety of your favorite music (with your current set-up) at different volume levels and make note of the average SPL and peak SPL's on the meter AT YOUR LISTENING POSITION. This then will be the "Base-Line" of reference for you to compare power requirements against. TS Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbtwsp Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 I am having a bit of trouble finding the app, could we use the 70-75 range for now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Go to your "app store" of choice and search for: SPLnFFT Download it and install it on your device. This is a fairly accurate db meter that you can now use from your listening position to determine actual volume levels Hmmm? interesting app... 92 dB from 6 little watts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolShedAmps Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 I am having a bit of trouble finding the app, could we use the 70-75 range for now? I guess that you could search the app store for "db meter" and see what results you get. If we just simply use the guesstimate of 70-75db in the calculations we will no longer have any "empirical data" to establish this "real-world" baseline. Arguably, the intent is to actually establish REAL sound pressure level expectations from YOUR listening position in YOUR room. No amount of "theory" will establish this for you (especially considering your primary goal). The difference between the sound quality and sonic attributes of SET, SEP, Tube PP, and Solid-State is fairly well documented in general. However, making decisions based on guesses can be the difference between AWESOME and meh.... TS Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbtwsp Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) I found a SPL/DB app, not the exact one you mentioned. I listened to some Rossini overtures and part of a Beethoven symphony at what I consider the loudest I would care to listen at, the results were average 85-90db, with peaks at about 95db. Hopefully this will help. Please take into consideration I would prefer to have a little extra available Bob Edited March 6, 2016 by rbtwsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolShedAmps Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Alright, now we have the ability to measure SPL @ 1 meter from the speaker. Grab a kitchen chair and position it in front of one of the speakers so that you can set your phone/tablet on it 39" away. Although you aren't 1 meter above sea level, this will be close enough. Without adjusting the volume knob/s play the same tracks again and make notes of the SPL (nominal and peaks) at this position. TS Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbtwsp Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 nominal 95, peak 99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolShedAmps Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Great! Now we have established the loss of amplitude to the seating position (or our reference base-line). Assuming we use this SPL as our 1-Watt point. Even if Klipsch has "Fudged" the sensitivity rating a hair, this will be pretty accurate. Given the following, at this amplitude, you require one watt of power. To increase this by a factor of "twice as loud" you will need 3 Watts. If you either want to listen to EDM at these volume levels or would like additional "head room, say 3db", you would need a 9 Watt amplifier. Anything beyond this (with Your speakers, in Your room, at Your seating position) is a matter of choice. To suggest you need 250 watts to enjoy "good bass" is absurd. TS Matt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbtwsp Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Klipsch states 100 db SPL, I have hear some suggest it may actually be as low as 94. Please define EDM To clarify when we talk about amp power are we talking 9 watts per channel or 9 watts both channels combined. My readings were done with a Yamaha AX570 100WPC, the volume control was a bit above 9 o'clock Bob Edited March 6, 2016 by rbtwsp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolShedAmps Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) Hi Bob, I am suggesting 9 Watts Per Channel. In spite of others' observations, I don't believe Klipsch would overrate their sensitivity by 6db. Perhaps these "others" were mistaking sensitivity for the need to drive a non-linear load. In any case, I think this is accurate and conservative. EDM is Electronic Digital Music, typically "Dance Music" engineered on a computer. TS Matt. Edited March 6, 2016 by ToolShedAmps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 My readings were done with a Yamaha AX570 100WPC, the volume control was a bit above 9 o'clock Bob Bob, I want to clarify a point which is a common misconception. The position of the volume control in no way correlates with the amount of power the amp is putting out. There are many ways for manufacturers to create whatever illusion they wish by using volume controls with the taper adjusted to their specs. Amp "A" may put out 5 watts with the volume control at 9 o/c, and amp "B" may need the control at 11 o/c for the same. Power output for a given setting must be measured. It's a relatively simple process to get an approximation with a multimeter placed across the speaker terminals. Maynard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbtwsp Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 Thanks Maynard, I kind of guessed that I was just providing the info for curiosity or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbtwsp Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 Thanks Matt, from what I have been able to find these speakers are most likely not very linear. Given our chat here your Genesis would most likely be a bit small, what is the power output of your other unit again? I appreciate all of your help, I just want to make a good choice. Thanks Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToolShedAmps Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Hi Bob, Running KT-88's or 6550's, my Transcendence12 is biased to a hair under 12 Watts Per Channel. TS Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon string Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 I would recommend thinking about clean quality power. The first few watts are the most important as they say. Im a big fan of class A power. I use a class A SET amp that produces 12 watts. I find it to offer really nice balanced bass as well as the expected mids and highs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Dammit, Matt, will you quit posting pictures of such beautiful work? I'm drooling all over my computer here, it's becoming a huge mess. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 (edited) will you quit posting pictures of such beautiful work? the side and back view of that very same, beautiful unit. Just because I can the other Matt ♪ ♫ ♪ Edited March 6, 2016 by Matthews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbtwsp Posted March 6, 2016 Author Share Posted March 6, 2016 I agree outstanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I've got a great idea, why don't we start with this? http://dangerousdecibels.org/education/information-center/noise-induced-hearing-loss/ Then we can move on to a discussion of "realistic" playback levels and power required to achieve a specific performance goal? TS Matt. Matt I respect you...but scare tactics to promote flea power....good grief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthews Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 but scare tactics to promote flea power....good grief! Really "NOS" ??? - SMH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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