reccomend a SET for my CF3's

[rbtwsp]

Please give me some ideas for a SET for my CF3's, I currently do not have a pre-amp and would like to go integrated. I will only be using one source so there is no need for switching.

I know this is a very broad question thanks in advance.

 

Bob

Edited March 3, 2016 by rbtwsp

[woodsman]

ToolShed Audio would be the place to start

[Jim]

Bob,

 

I'd speak with a few on here who have the CF-3. I am not familiar with them, but I thought I read they are hard to push with a SET amp. Maybe a PP or SEP?

 

Justinweber is also someone I'd contact as well.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Jim

[Matthews]

Not to familiar with the CF series. However, I highly recommend ToolShed.  Simply amazing custom builds!  I am new to the world of tubes and have absolutely no regrets going with TSA.  In fact, Matt of TSA is now preparing to build me two more amplifiers if love them so much. 

 

+1 for Tool Shed

 

My TSA custom Genesis and Exodus, pair...

Matt ♪ ♫ ♪

 

 

[Jim]

Bob, maybe change your thread to include "for my CF-3's". That will in my opinion get the attention of owners of them.

[rbtwsp]

Matthews,

 I spoke to Matt a Toolshed breifly, but never asked if he builds SET's. I spoke to him about the Genesis 6.

Jim,

 I don't recall reading about 'hard to push', but you may be right. I have heard they like power but, the CF'3 are 100db according to Klipsch.

[Matthews]

Evening Bob, TSA amps are SEP.  Glad you spoke with Matt.  He has been and continues to be a pleasure to work with.  Nothing but good things to say about my experience with ToolShed

[rbtwsp]

Hello Matthews, Toolshed is the top of my list right now, I am still thinking about SET's. Some people seem to prefer SET's to SEP's for different reasons.

I agree Toolshed is top notch.

[mike stehr]

What sort of single-ended triode amplifier do you have in mind?

[Jim]

. I have heard they like power

 

That's what I meant when I said hard to push. The lower wattage powered amps,depending on them may not match well with those.

 

Again,there are several on here who have them and could tell you better than I can. I've never even heard them, but all the posts I've seen on them is they are great speakers,but power hungry. I infer power hungry as needing a good 10-15 watts with a SEP or PP. Maybe even more.

[rbtwsp]

What sort of single-ended triode amplifier do you have in mind?

Mike, not exactly sure from what I have seen alot of people build their own SET's. I don't know of many manufacturers, maybe Carey?

 

Jim,

 I am bit confused with the power hungry thing, Klipssh does say they are rated 100db. I don't doubt what you and others say but the 100db makes me wonder.

Some builders think I may be fine, hopefully I will hear from CF3 owners.

 

thanks Bob

Edited March 3, 2016 by rbtwsp

[Shiva]

http://www.divertech.com/aslmgsi15dt.html

 

I used to have this Antique Sound lab amp driving my Epic CF3's. it has a switch that changes it between a 5 watts set amp and 15 watts in pentode for added flexibility.  It was a fun little amp and had a nice remote control as well.  It powered the Epics just fine.

Edited March 3, 2016 by shiva

[Jim]

 

What sort of single-ended triode amplifier do you have in mind?

Mike, not exactly sure from what I have seen alot of people build their own SET's. I don't know of many manufacturers, maybe Carey?

 

Jim,

 I am bit confused with the power hungry thing, Klipssh does say they are rated 100db. I don't doubt what you and others say but the 100db makes me wonder.

Some builders think I may be fine, hopefully I will hear from CF3 owners.

 

thanks Bob

 

 

 

Bob,

 

Maybe it will make more sense if we know how big your room is and your seating position.The builders can match things easier that way. I only say this as I have a set of forte II and also use the KF-28's, and the KF-28's are easier to power with lower watted amps than my forte II. I had a SET that was only putting out 1.5 wpc and it didn't give me enough volume or sound stage as my room is to big.It would clip before giving me that SET imaging. But I also have a 4wpc SET and it powers the forte fine,not ear splitting levels but fine,as long as they are close to a wall.And I get that imaging. My KF-28's aren't as critical on placement as they are front ported and will sound louder.

 

I may not be communicating it the way I mean to, but I'm under the impression from posts on here by others, that it takes more power for the CF's to really sing vs let's say a set of LS. So an amp that has lower than 4wpc may not really be able to make them open up as much. It doesn't do it on my fortes,but my room is also 14x24. It powers them fine and I enjoy them, but if I really want to listen at higher levels, I have to switch over to a SEP, or my PP that pushes 42 wpc. My speakers sound better to me when they are being pushed at higher volume levels and I have the extra headroom in the amp to be able to push them louder. When I want more critical listening, I just use the SET and they sound fine, but when I turn the amp louder,after a certain point, I lose the imaging of the 3d, if that makes sense.

 

If you speak to Matt,ask him if he does SET's or just SEP. I'm sure you'll be fine with any of the amps, I just don't know if you'll be able to get them to a high volume level without clipping. I may be wrong, and as I said above, I don't know the speakers, just remembered others posting how they needed amps with a lot of wattage to get them to really open up.

 

I was hoping WVU80 would give his input as well as a few others. You may be able to search their threads on the CF-3's to see what I'm talking about.

 

I'm not educated enough in tubes,or the speakers, so I can only go by what I have and what I've read.

[moray james]

The CF efficiency numbers are not truthful they are exaggerated to be competitive in the market they are fudged all the loudspeaker companies fudge their numbers there is no way around it. If you don't fudge you simply don't compete. Believe that or not it is the case. t

The CF3 is really about a 94 db efficient loudspeaker. You can run it on a small amp and it can sound nice. However if you want to light it up and hear what amazing things it can do you are not going to hear that with some set amps You are going to need at minimum some really solid (large supply) 50 watt per channel stereo blocks (a pair of them) minimum and 100 - 200 watts per channel would be better. You will want to vertically bi amp with one stereo block (two channel) amp per speaker. Do that they will astound you, don't and you will never know what amazing performers they really are. That does not make them poor speakers it is simply what they require to truly shine and impress. You need to give a speaker what it needs to get the job done. I would make exactly the same recommendation to KLF20 owners.

[rbtwsp]

The room is about 12'x20', my listening position is about 16' away.

 

Jim, how many watts per channel is you SEP?

Anyone have experience with the Carey 300SEI?

 

Thanks everyone gotta head to work   Bob

[tube fanatic]

Bob, the amount of power you need will be based on how loudly you listen.  For example, if we use Moray's estimate of the speaker sensitivity, you would need 6 watts to achieve a level of 91 db at 16 feet from the speakers; and, even if we split the difference between the published sensitivity and Moray's value, we're still talking about 3 watts.  That, of course, doesn't take into consideration musical peaks.  If you really like to shake the walls at times and hit a 10 db peak, we're talking 10 times the power being needed!!!  So, if that's the case, single ended amps of any type are not feasible.  You will need to go with a fairly hefty push-pull amp (take a look at Rogue Audio which has amps which can be used in either ultralinear mode, or triode strapped).  If you get a chance, let us know more about the types of music you listen to and the level at which you listen.

 

Maynard

[Jim]

The room is about 12'x20', my listening position is about 16' away.

 

Jim, how many watts per channel is you SEP?

Anyone have experience with the Carey 300SEI?

 

Thanks everyone gotta head to work   Bob

 

 

Bob,

 

My SEP is 4wpc, but it's a totally different type than SET. And I use it when listening more as "background" music while working at my desk.

 

Some of the people who are responding are the ones I was waiting for as they are much more knowledgeable than I am.

 

If you can, and your pockets aren't that deep, think of SET as critical listening, and SEP more for power and volumes. This is in layman's terms of course and not totally accurate, but if you are at 16' away, you won't be able to get the imaging the SET gives, but with a PP/SEP you'll get better volume, better response with bass, better stereo sound, and won't have to worry about clipping on the amp.

 

Most on here,including Matthews and Toolshedamps will give a similar opinion on seating positions or listening positions. The closer the better,and the better the imaging and SQ will be.

 

I listen at about 22 feet while working and doing paperwork, so I don't use the SET. When I am using the SET, I am 7 feet from the speakers,and they are 7 feet apart. A quick rule of thumb for critical would be an equilateral triangle as a starting point. When I want to really get my circulation going, I use my PP which has 42wpc, and that's when the forte II really open up.  Bass response is going to be much less with a SET. And I assume with the CF-3's you want them to open up more and give a nice chest pounding bass at times.

[tube fanatic]

Jim gave you very good advice.  The real "magic" of SETs will be much more evident with a closer listening position, and lower listening level, than what is required at 16 feet.  Are you sitting on a couch or chair when listening, and is there a way to sit closer to the speakers?  Some guys use a simple switching arrangement which allows more than one amp to be selected depending on how you want to listen.  I'm sure Jim can explain how he does that if you are curious.

Maynard

[rbtwsp]

hello evreyone,

 As I said before the room is 12'x20' and my listening position is about 16' away, the speakers are about 6-7' apart. I listen to classical and I only use one source my cd player. I listen to a fair amount of large orchestral, but not extremely loud. Yes, I do like bass but I don't necessarily need to rattle windows. I would like to have headroom for when orchestral changes from quiet to louder passages soI probably won't go SET but wonder if SEP would be enough, I think it would work when I listen to chamber but maybe not large orchestral.

If I could I would like to use just a  tube amp with a gain control, my cd player has output of 2.3 volts and I think that may be enough. My other thought is a tube integrated .

 

Thanks

[Jim]

My opinion would be to do a tube integrated for the power. I don't know what Toolshed Matt will say, but also try Justin Weber.

 

My Yaqin MC-10L has enough head room for my listening set up, and it actually does give an almost SET like sound at times with imaging. My SEP is good, but doesn't have the headroom for really loud listening.

 

I have my 3 amps going through an amp switch, and I also use an audio switch as I have 2 turntables, a cd player, and my laptop with an external hard drive (1TB). Depending on my mood for listening, I just push a button and am good to go, and then if I feel like a change, I just push another button. None of the switches are powered, so I don't have to worry about any issues.