Heresy's for my "DJ" son?

[Charles Turner]

My pre-teen son has taken up being a DJ as a hobby (school parties etc). I bought him a couple of turntables and a mixer and now need speakers. Having Cornwalls myself, I am thinking of a pair of Heresy's.

Anyone have any opinions as to whether these would work well for this purpose? Also I notice several variations...industrial etc...which one would be best?

thanks

[tpg]

I have seen some pairs of heresy's listed on eBay as being used for DJ purposes... should work well.

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SoundWise / ProMedia Tech Support / 1-888-554-5665s>

[justin_tx_16]

i would look at the pro version, you need volume

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-justin

SoundWise

promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5s>

Email Me

[kenratboy]

NO WAY!

You need somthing carpeted and with handles. Get NOTHING smaller than a 15 or 18-inch woofer. A 12" woofer will get blown up.

For warranty, get some JBL:

TR Series

MPro 200 Series

Anything used from JBL, it is all good stuff unless it is old and abused.

New stuff has a 5-year warranty, so if/when you sell it, the purchaser will be giving you more $$$ because there is warranty letf, and JBL is VERY well know (well, it is THE BRAND) in the pro world.

Enjoy! I am a JBL Pro freak, so e-mail me if you have any questions, I would LOVE to help you out!!!

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Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U

Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

For JBL related subjects and more fun, click: http://www.audioheritage.org

[kenratboy]

Also, I would NOT recommend a Heresy. As good as they are for home, the mid and tweeter are chintzy compared to even the cheapest real professional speakers. They will (from accidents, like dropped stylus) get abused occasionally, and the pro stuff has BUILT IN TWEETER PROTECTION!!! This is a self-reseting fuse that literally makes it impossible to blow a $200 tweeter.

Check out www.musiciansfriend.com , they have most of the cheaper JBL stuff and even some SLIGHTLY cosmetically clawed JBL's for a lot less. Check em' out.

JBL TR Series - ttp://www.jblpro.com/pages/mi/tr_series.htm

JBL Sound Factor Series - http://www.jblpro.com/soundfactor/sf_home.html

JBL MPro Series - http://www.jblpro.com/pages/mi/mpro_series_test_tbl.htm

The TR 225 has 2, 15" woofers and a BIG horn. They are $380 each and will rock your would. They are VERY nice speakers.

E-mail me, I will give you details. Give me a budget, and I will recommend somthing!

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Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U

Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

For JBL related subjects and more fun, click: http://www.audioheritage.org

[Charles Turner]

Many thanks on the advice...especially the recommendation on JBL. My son is just beginning his hobby...bought 2 turntables and a mixer this weekend. I was hoping to use Heresy's so if he changed his mind he would still have a good pair for a home stereo.

I will save your email and get back to you for JBL advice if he sticks with it.

[kenratboy]

The big "if"

Just think, the speakers will get thashed (go into a school gym/auditorium and drag your knuckles across the floor, there are little pieces of stone and drit, they will mar a wood finish) and they will look like $hit after a few gigs.

JBL resale values are pretty good, especially if you save the boxes! Also, check eBay.

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Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U

Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

For JBL related subjects and more fun, click: http://www.audioheritage.org

[djk]

Uhh, kenratboy, you're talking out of your hat.

The TR series, SoundFactor, MPro 400, and MPro 200 series all have the same low quality parts in them.

That's right, low quality parts.

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/mi/MP225.pdf

The high end is down 3dB at only 11Khz! The 2412H compression driver only has a 1" voice coil and is electrically crossed in at well over 3Khz. The acoustic crossover is somewhere around 2Khz. The driver could go lower, but it wouldn't handle any power. So they cross it high, add a lightbulb for protection, and cross their fingers.

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/MPro%20Series/MP225.pdf

Who ever owns these should cross their fingers too, the 2412H does not have a user replaceable voice coil! And they don't sell a re-cone kit for the M115 woofers either.

Bass? They don't have much. They can't. While they do have two 15" woofers, the coil overhang is only 0.1". The total coil length is 0.6" with the top plate being 0.5" thick. That's right, once the woofer moves more than +/- 0.05" in either direction there are fewer turns of wire in the gap. A 15" woofer has about 135 sq in of area, so two moving 0.1" peak-to-peak gives us about 27 cu in peak displacement.

A Klipsch Cornwall woofer has a total coil length of about 0.875" with a top plate thickness of 0.375" for a coil overhang of 0.5", that means one Cornwall woofer woofer can displace about 67.5 cu in. That's over twice as much as the pair of JBL woofers.

The 4648s that you own are a completely different product, much higher quality.

For DJ use a Klipsch Heresy Industrial with a subwoofer would be the best. But I would probably not buy a used pair as most of these will have been flogged, and they didn't make that many to start with.

What I would do would be to buy a pair of original Heresy, not Heresy II. Then I would replace the woofer with the Industrial type and update the network to same. I would consider a pair of flogged HBR. Look at it this way: You're going to beat them around in the trunk of your car, do you car what they look like? If the answer is yes, put a fresh coat of black paint or carpet on them. You're going to replace the woofers, you don't care about them. You're going to rebuild the networks, you don't care about them. If the tweeters are blown, so much the better: this way you can start with a fresh pair of diaphragms, and with the upgraded networks with tweeter protection you know you will never have a problem. The K55V midrange driver is virtually indestructable.

[kenratboy]

I have delbt with some of the stuff, and FOR THE PRICE, the JBL's are great. Let's see, a JBL (EAW, Peavey, Martin, etc.) with a 2226 ($350) woofer and horn tweeter ($500+) will be over $1000 each. So, the $2000/pr. league.

Thats why I am asking for budget and the like.

As for 11 KHz., have your heard a 12, 15, 18, 20, 25 KHz. note? They run out really quick. Also, ANY pro horn system will run out in the teens, why? Because it isn't really nessasary for pro apps, with live stuff, 10 KHz. is about it. Even the big, expensive speakers will run out of steam at 14-16 KHz.

The exception is a three-way system, and the Heresy's will go up to about 20 KHz. at +/-3. Same with all the pro stuff. Pro speakers with super tweeters can even get into the mid 20's.

I guess comparing pro to consumer goods is a downhill battle.

LOOK:

Klipsch KP-302 60Hz - 15KHZ +/-4 dB., that isn't exactly far from JBL, and thats at 4, so what about the industry standard of 3?

I have seen Nady and that stuff. Garbage. I have seen the basic JBL, Peavey, and EAW. VERY nice.

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Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U

Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

For JBL related subjects and more fun, click: http://www.audioheritage.org

[Audible Nectar]

What would be wrong with a set of industrial LaScalas? They'll move plenty of air in large, open areas, and the black cabinets would be suitable for the inevitable dings they will get in DJ use. The Heresys would work too - but the LaScalas would be much more robust in a larger room.

For DJ use, is sub bass (below 50 hz) really necessary anyway?

[kenratboy]

Is a pair of SVS Ultras nessasary for a home theater?

It is preference. The 12" woofers won't be causing any earthquakes. A subwoofer would help, but somthing decent will be $1000+

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Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U

Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

For JBL related subjects and more fun, click: http://www.audioheritage.org

[djk]

kenratboy, a qualifying question I always asked when confronted with a low budget: "Would you rather have a new Chevette, or a used Camaro?"

In the case of those entry level JBLs, change "Chevette" to "Yugo".

Some people insist on "new", even when it means they end up with a POS.

"What would be wrong with a set of industrial LaScalas? They'll move plenty of air in large, open areas, and the black cabinets would be suitable for the inevitable dings they will get in DJ use. The Heresys would work too - but the LaScalas would be much more robust in a larger room."

I've been there, and done that. The Heresy Industrial sounds smoother than the LaScala. It is only 1/3rd the weight. Have you tried to buy a stand that will hold a LaScala? And then tried to lift it on to same? Can you say no bass? Yes, I've run the LaScala with a sub. The Heresy with a sub sounds better.

The other day there were a pair of older Heresy on eBay with a buy-it-now of $200. The Eminence Industrial woofers and the network parts I recommend would set you back about $200. You can sell old K22 woofers for $50~100 a pair on eBay. You figure out the bottom line.

"For DJ use, is sub bass (below 50 hz) really necessary anyway?"

"with live stuff, 10 KHz. is about it."

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I always wondered about the kind of person that would settle for a Yugo(or those inflatable sex dolls).

[Roadhawg]

I have had pretty broad experience with different kinds of pro equipment including JBL, EAW, EV, pro LaScalas and pro Heresys.

My personal preference is the pro LaScalas. Given a good size room where they can open up and play they give impact you just don't get from other speakers even when bi-amped or tri-amped. Most people that slam them for no low end have only heard them in small living rooms where they can't show what they can do. They do roll off at about 45 hz, but most pro equipment rolls off there or above. The goal of pro equipment is high spl within predetermined frequency ranges, usually from 40 to 50 hz to around 17 or 20 khz. The real key to quality pro equipment is not the advertised specs but how well they sound within those specs. I'd rather take a beating than spend 30 minutes listening to a pair of 3 way Mackie active speakers again. If you looked at the specs you'd think they'd be alright, but they sounded obscene at any volume level.

To address the question of notes above 10 khz, fundamentals end considerably lower than the harmonics that continue above what we can hear. The highest fundamental for a piano is about 4khz. Synthesizers can play fundamentals as high as 20 khz. A tenor voice can reach maybe 600 hz, a rare soprano voice might reach 1.4 khz. The point being that fundamentals are relatively low. However, if you chop EQ at 10 khz even on a male voice whose highest fundamental can only reach 600 hz, the voice will sound dull and lifeless. Adding EQ boost at around 16 khz will add "air" to the vocals and bring them out from the surrounding band mix. The reason you want wide frequency response is not for the fundamentals but for the harmonics which give the sound it's character.

Having said that, before anyone can make a good speaker choice for pro applications, you have to know the type of music to be played and the size of the rooms they will be used in more often than not. Another major consideration is how many people will be around to help set up! I used pro LaScalas with a band and even though I am an avid weightlifter I needed another person to get them up on stands. If it will be a one person setup-case closed. Get pro Heresys and a sub. You won't need massive amplifiers or the hassle and expense of a bi-amped system to reach serious sound levels.

In my opinion, to get comparable sound quality from any other pro gear, you will have to spend 4 or 5 times the amount that the Heresys would cost and at least twice what the LaScalas would cost.

[kenratboy]

The Yugo is coming back to the USA. 6,000 dealers and 60,000-100,000 cars the first year. The kicker, the car will be called ZMW.

OK, I am speaking from personal experience, I have never seen/used a REAL speaker in pro apps. Just school stuff. Obviously, I am not going to all of a subben come across a big JBL, EAW, or EV rig, so I am not going to say:

"All the cheap stuff sucks. Get really expensive stuff."

I have not delbt with that stuff, so I am not going to talk about it. Fair enough?

If you would like to recommend products, fine, but I am not going to head to a web site, pick the most expensive product, and recommend that.

------------------

Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U

Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

For JBL related subjects and more fun, click: http://www.audioheritage.org

[HDBRbuilder]

I am not gonna get into the pro's and con's of which speakers are best suited for DJ use here, BUT....

1. This is a PRE-TEEN kid we are talking about here!! Which likely means that he will be making UNWISE decisions...like...

a. jacking up the bass or treble(or both) on a regular basis, thereby risking blown woofers/tweeters

b. using more power than the speakers are rated at because "all my buddies say more watts is better!!"

c. beating the hell out of the cabinets when lugging them around (he is PRE-Teen and not likely to be very muscle-bound yet...and even Heresys are NOT LIGHTWEIGHT!!...and industrial LaScalas are even MORE likely to herniate him!!)

2. Personally, I would NEVER make a high-dollar investment for a pre-teen in speakers...but if that is what Charles Turner wants, and he wants Heresys, then he needs to check out the following set of Heresys on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=1379200355

3. Once again, if it is Heresys he wants for the son's budding DJ career, then these should fit the bill nicely!

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I can now receive private messages

[prodj101]

you guys don't seem to wanna consider anything besides JBL, but I'm going to have to reccomend Mackie. Might cost ya a little more but they're the best. I have heard many of there speaker designs and have to say I really like them. O, by the way, I'm a teenage DJ too, and I once used a pair of SF-2's and SF-1's, and an RSW-15 to throw the party. Has your son already done these school parties or not? seems like an awful lot of money thrown in all at one time.

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New music system:

2.1 using SF-2's (soon to be RF-7's), and an RSW-15. for amplification Mcintosh MC02105, B&K PT-3 preamp, Sony SACD player. pioneer turntable.

[prodj101]

oh, by the way, not mackie actives as stated above! stay away from active speakers as much as possible for dj purposes, just another thing to go wrong.

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New music system:

2.1 using SF-2's (soon to be RF-7's), and an RSW-15. for amplification Mcintosh MC02105, B&K PT-3 preamp, Sony SACD player. pioneer turntable.

[Charles Turner]

Thanks again for the continued feedback...I was watching the ebay auction on the pro heresy's in the "road" cabinets but I was not willing to go past $450. I see another member of this board wanted them more...congrats.

Maybe I will come across some old ones in birch I can refinish for him one day...or then again, maybe he will give up his new hobby.

[Airpirate CVG]

Head straight over to Guitar Center or Mars I am sure you have one nearby in Dallas. Home speakers were not built to take the punishment that speakers go though in a "commercial setting". This does not mean that Pro (non studio monitors) Stage PA speakers are better in sound quality just more durable. In a DJ environment volume is what people really want. And yes in response to a previous writer sub bass seems to be a must for a DJ. Go to any top club and you'll see what I mean.

Mackie, Carvin, EV etc..

This message has been edited by Airpirate CVG on 09-12-2002 at 10:08 PM

[IndyKlipschFan]

OK, please those of you at Klipsch or people that know me personally do not shoot me here for recommending something else... And Charles..do some homework too.

I have been a DJ since 1980. I "retired" in 1988. I have used all of the "pro gear" (JBL, Carvin, EAW, Bag End, Trainor, Yahmaha, B52, etc etc and Klipsch...Keep reading for my suggestion) I have spun records in hole in the wall bars with drunks yelling Play "Freebird" at the top of their lungs...teeth missing with their tattoos glowing in the lights...., and also up in the DJ booth of multi million dollar clubs looking down on the rich n famous. Here in Indy, in the "old days," I actually learned how to spin records based on BPM (Beats Per Min). I can mix or scratch, crab crawl, or whaatever trick you want to call it just about any style, old school, disco, RnB, funk, new wave, to todays trance, industrial, mood, etc. Cool thing about BPM is you create music "cells" based on time and understanding how to get a dance floor busy and when to take it up or down too. (OK, enough Psychology here sorry) I could go on with different catagories but you get the idea. (I am sure your son can spout out like 20 different styles...LOL) I did gigs while in college on the 5 year plan, that helped me work basically weekends to pay for my education at $250-$350, sometimes more, for larger events. Weddings were the best money, easiest to do, if you did what the bride n grooom wanted...and had all of the usual his and her songs/ wedding type material too.*Chicken dance* LOL.. You get the idea.

It was pretty good $$ for a one night gig for what was basically a 1 hour set up..however long the show was..usually 4 hours..and an hour take down. Did I get rich..NO. Was it good $$ yes, with a LOT of hard work too. Not to mention a lot of records in those days and cd's too. Be forwarned, it is a razor/ razor blade system... You buy the equipment, but need the latest and old stuff too, music wise, to be cool. (Think never ending supplies of this is hot.. wow, I need two copies to mix in and out of it you get the idea.)

Not to mention LIGHTS and fog machines etc etc he is gonna need. Look at Chauvet as a good not too expensive supplier for this too. I have never been a fan of the American DJ line of anything stuff. It is really cheap stuff, and sounds like crap!

Ok, so here I start to get more to the point. One, he is a kid. I agree too much, too soon, is crazy and not realistic. Yes, eventually, he needs at least 2 of the Techniques 1200 turn tables...they are the best... Will he survive with something else? Of course. BTW, Stanton, Shure and Ortofon make the best cartridges/needles too. (You will buy them, based on skill and applications too.) Don't forget slip pads. A good option is to look at Mars music or the Guitar Center.. Numark makes a great starter system (Two turntables, a mixer, cords etc etc or cd players/ mixers etc etc for around 200-300 dollars) When you really get into it, you will buy dance mixes galor from DJ shops that carry the latest more expensive cool re mix stuff too. Some of these are incredible today. (At the radio station here in Indy, at 16yrs old I learned from two of the best, Johnny George and Jelly Bean Benitez...Look at the older Madonna Albums/ Cd you will see their names... great people too, btw. We used to splice tapes to go from one song to the next or add dance beats between songs, repete choruses, etc., etc. THAT was an "art" before sampling LOL.

Ok sorry so long winded...so what do you do speaker wise... This company is a proud Amercan..been in the business longer than red clay in Georgia... These speakers will work for you night after night after night..and at one time this company said, "We choose not to get into the DJ business we represent only LIVE musicians" LOL. I still have that magazine someplace Lord how times change.,.,(grins) and it is PEAVEY.

Look here:

http://www.peavey.com/products/dj/

Why do I pick it?.. Simply put, and no I do not work for them too..LOL.. It will do the job night after night it is made for this application and I would be hard pressed if he is even able to destroy it too.LOL

Some of the newer stuff even has casters built in for easy loading moving around saving yours and his backs. Look hard at the DJS 4.

Voiced for pre-recorded music. The DJS 4 is a powerful full range speaker, ideal for club installs and mobile DJ's. Featuring two Scorpion® 15 inch woofers featuring field replaceable baskets, and an RX 22 driver coupled with a CH® 941 constant directivity horn. This speaker packs a punch at 1000 watts program power. It is voiced specially for DJ's with extra bass and sizzle. It is equipped with built-in pocket casters for the mobile DJ. Since the DJS 4 has a 4 Ohm impedance your amplifier runs more efficiently than with an 8 Ohm speaker, providing greater power.

So please do not get mad at me fellow BB Klipschers.. Sometimes when you have done something someone else wants to do, its good to give em "The good" (Hey he will appreciate music more, hopefully understanding all kinds of music too.) "The bad" (omg not that song again...or wow look at the language can he actually play that loud in public place or at a school dance or wedding)and "The ugly" (that song sucks...and NO I am not gonna play freebird you drunk toothless wonder << in my head as I laughed at him>> .,,,LOL

BTW, you may have to lock up your collection too of any cd's or albums before he steals and ruins them too.)

Worse case senario, he can take these baby's to college in a few years. Again, try and abuse em, they are indestructable, and then after he too gets a college degree much like myself.. If he does choose Klipsch perhaps he can do what I did, buy himself a pair of K horns for his home stereo because he earned em.. one night at a time.

Hope this helps!!