rune Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Some of you may have seen me talking about my "new" x-over in mine Khorns.I just have to start a new topic to let you all know. The change in sound isn't the least subtle.It sounds almost like a complete different speaker. I have all the time from when I bought these new in year 2000,felt they had a nasty tendency of screaming to me in mids/highs(The bass has been a joy all the time)And I have tried every forums I could think of to get help with this problem.The most people said that the Khorn is so revealing that the problem lies somewhere else in my set-up.I also have a small room 20m2 so I sit about 3m(9 feet) from the speakers,and that's offcourse not so pleasent with most horns. I changed a lot of hi-fi components,and all the time I felt the problem was in the speaker,but nobody seemed to agree.I had by the time an all Audio Note set-up,and everyone that have heard AN know they don't scream. Luckily I got an Audio Note speaker and so I stopped listening to my Khorns. Because I had read that PWK prefered the 1.order crossover(Type A,In mine there was the AK-3),I thought I might give it a try.I made up my mind to use Audio Note caps(I'm no dealer in case you start to become suspicious ),because their products give me so much harmonic rich sound from every instrument and voice. So now the AN caps are in my Khorns.I have no inductor in the bass,and offcourse the fuses are bypassed. !!PS!Just remember that if you do these changes you might blow drivers,especially the tweet,and you are totally on your own replacing them!!!!The warranty has left the building! Now I've had the caps in there playing for something like 15 hours,and the sound is amazing!They are so harmonic rich sounding that I only have heard sweater violin sound one place,and that was in a small concert in Praha in 1996. My feeling was until now that the reason Khorn had become so famous was all alone their bassperformance.But now they have maybe the best mids/highs I have ever heard(and I have heard some good speakers). And they also sound very coherent,ballsy,rythmic.......I could go on and on!. I know a lot of people would not like the sound of the Type A, beacause it sounds more full,and then people think they hear less details.Excuse me for saying this,but BULLSHIT!.There are much more details now,but I don't bother listen for it because I'm busy listen to music!!! So hear me dedicated music lover:The Khorn is the work of a genius,but you haven't heard it until you try PWK's favorite x-over......... I have to go.I hear Jimi Hendrix has arrived in my living room!!! Regards, Rune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Shortly, I will show this forum a *real* upgrade for a Klipschorn. More to come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 John, I, for one, will be waiting with great anticipation for your news...regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 For disatisfied owners of Klipschorns, I offer a 24/7 pickup and disposal service. Just call 817 430-3662 and I'll come with lights and siren. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 John, I have known a few woman durning my life that were also great teasers. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 I love my ALK clones but I have K-horns from 65 and 61. This might make a difference. I has stock Type A crossovers but the newer ALK clones sound much better. Granted the TYPE A I had were stock and quite old so perhaps an upgrade to the inductor and caps would have made them sound better. I just rebuilt my older Cornwall crossovers but haven't fired them up yet. They are similiar to a type A. I'll let u know how they sound. The ability to change the tap settings on my K-horns made the biggest difference for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted September 3, 2002 Author Share Posted September 3, 2002 Trader, You say your AlK's sound better than your Type A.Can you say something about the sound,and why you prefer the ALKs? BTW,do you know the name and numbers of the drivers in your Khorns? Regards, Rune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Rune, I an with you 100% on this one. It will be hard to convince some on here but no need to on this end. I have Jensen Copper Foil Oils in some of my gear, namely the 2A3 Monoblocks and they are amazing caps with excellent detail along with outstanding tone and a naturalness that walks over most film/foil caps. When Audio Note left departed from Jensen (who have been in the cap business for 50 years or so) to make their own oils, a lot were watching. Evidently, they have come out with some really nice stuff. I would have never touched a paper in oil cap before I went SET, having MIT RTX etc in all my cap mods. I love my Type B crossovers (via 77 CW/Alnico)with vintage oils and feel no need to jump to the ALK brigade. I was never really a lover of Klipsch speakers until I heard them with quality valve amps and vinyl/SET/oils have really brought them to a new level. The wide variety of listening experience and tastes along with the varying degrees of front end/equipment quality really make for some different listening perceptions / tastes. kh ps- Ask Trade what his surrounding equipment is as well as his tastes. A lot in here love their horns with high power solid state, which is what drove me AWAY from horns in my band days. Trader, what are you running with your system? ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 09-03-2002 at 07:08 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Kelly, As much as I respect your opinions (and you know I do), I think it is hard to make an assumption about the differences between a pair of ALK's and your stock B Crossovers in the Cornwall's. I don't beleive I have heard Cornwall's with the B crossover, but did hear Colin's with the B-2 (or maybe it was a B-3) and preferred the sound of my La Scala's with the lowly AL's in them (again, not a fair comparison). BTW, I am only referring to the mids and highs here since they share the same drivers. I think the same holds true for the Eico HF-81 and the Scott 299 comparison. Until you have had a chance to compare them both, everything else is just hearsay... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Well, I have have heard a host of high quality film and foil caps and have quite a few in my other equipment from ProAcs to all other "normal" speakers (as well as other gear). I used to be a 100% film and foil proponent, getting rid of all electrolytics and metalized polypropylene etc. It wasnt until I heard REALLY good oil caps of the quality of Jensen/Audio Note that I heard the difference. I really think that quality oils would better serve horn speakers in the same way I feel that top notch tube amps do better (with respect to TomB and others that view differently) over high powered solid state. No, I have not heard the ALKs and they are probably fine if not improvements over some of the versions of Klipsch crossovers. Others might prefer the sound over all. I just find that quality oils are more harmonically correct, revealing the natural tones over the film/foils. THen again, I havent heard ALK's implementation. Again, no need for the measurements brigade to spring forth. As for the EICO, I do need to hear the 299. Based on my listening to tweaked 222 at my buddy's house, we both preferred the EICO as it was more open with air and more three dimensional (but the 299 is diff than the 222). In talks with others that have both IN HOUSE, the HF-81 has bettered the 299. Still, I am planning on getting one to make a comparison here so nothing in stone. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 09-03-2002 at 10:02 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Dear KH, I know you like oil cap as I do, I used a lot in my preamp rectifier circuit. But in the crossover, do you use the same value of cap when you shift from oil to metallic or vice versa, some people said no, use smaller value in oil caps. In klipsch's original type A, he must have used oil caps, right? So the value must be right if we use the oil caps to rebuild a new one. That also mean if you use modern cap, you may need to increase the value of them? What do you think? Thanks SZE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Hi all, Hope no one feel hurt and everyone enjoy good music and be happy. I feel so grateful to you guys'advice, I understand audiophiles have very diverce opinion and passion to his liked theory, same here in Hong Kong. I have learnt a lot, really. i hope I can have some contribution as well if I find something good Dear AL and randy, thanks so much. All the best Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Rune, The TYPE A crossovers in my K-Horns are almost 34 years old so perhaps it's not a fair comparison to my new state of the art crossover-ALK clones. I thought the Type A sounded good but with ALK clones the music is more detailed and the music is more alive. I also was able to make the squawker a touch hotter which is to my liking. As to my setup: I'm using 5 monoblock amplifiers in one chassis. I have a Sherbourn 5/1500 amplifier. The president of MCintosh started the company and the amp have gotten rave reviews. I tested it against a Scott 299B that was totally overhauled and we couldn't tell a difference between the two amps. The Sherbourn actually beat out a Scott monoblock tube amp in a similar comparison. We ran them side by side with the same channel going into two different speakers. Therefore, I don't have a great need to upgrade to a tube amp. I'm also into SACD and DVD-A so it's nice to have 5 monoblocks in one chassis. I also have a Newcastle preamp and a Pioneer 47A player. The sound is incredible. I have K-Horns and Heresys for all my other speakers with Cornwalls ready to take over the center channel duties. I listen to Elton John, Coltrane, Kenny G, Coors, Fleetwood Mac, etc. I have stopped thinking about other upgrades since I put in the ALK clones. My Type A with updated parts might have sounded as good but I'll never know. Also, SACD and DVD-A are incredible on my K-Horns. This message has been edited by trader on 09-03-2002 at 07:28 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Their are dissatisfied K-Horn owners!? Never heard of that. I guess they would like to have three more instead of just two, that is why they are dissatisfied. ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5s> Email Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Yes I have met several unsatisfied Khorn owners over the years. Most of them had there Khorns set up totally wrong in an unlistenable environment. Room design and acoustics is probably the most overlooked avenue of this hobby. Trader - Sherbourn Hey... Looks very interesting. Was just on there site thanks to your post. I sold my MAC 7200's this spring for funds to finish my HT project. Been running a pair of old NAD 2200's in the Interum until I upgrade to a still undetermined "something else". Been considering tubes.... but ... I am having flash backs to my guitar playing days and my old crappy Marshall amps, there bias sucked. Sounded great some nights, sucked on the others. Always had 2 -3 sets of tubes ready and burned in in case she blew up.... Not sure I want that kind of fun in this hobby !!!! Was very happy with my 7200's. Very Interesting.... There prices are excelent, especially if they have the quality, and sound of the MAC's JM This message has been edited by j-malotky on 09-03-2002 at 10:12 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 I had both the ALK and B crossovers on my Cornwalls. The sound was very close, but I give the nod to the ALKs. Honestly, this could have been due to the $500 spent on the crossovers, but I doubt it. Innocent bystanders (wife, neighbor, dog) commented positively. Bottom line is that I know top notch caps/inductors were used ... Al does a great job on the design ... there is very little downside. Just decide how much you think it's worth. I have five of his networks in play and no one's complaining ------------------ "Bullsh*t!" -PWK- --------------------- TWO-CHANNEL SYSTEM Eico HF-81 Eico HFT-90 New Tube 4000 CD Player 1976 Klipschorns (KCBR's & ALK'ed) HOME THEATER Klipsch 1968 ALK Cornwall "II"s (LF/RF) ALK Belle Klipsch (Center) Klipsch Heresy (RR/LR) Klipsch KSW-12 sub Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Cornwalls) Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Heresy's) Denon AVR-4800 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted September 5, 2002 Share Posted September 5, 2002 ...dissatisfied k-horn owners...does not compute...oxymoronic...does not compute... My 98's have the AK-3 crossover. Quite simply, I hear no problems! True, the mids are somewhat prominent, but that is what tone controls and equalizers are for...THUNK!s>(that was the sound of MH hitting the floor after fainting) HA Actually, I have been somewhat intrigued by all the praise heaped on the ALK, but I just can't see spending money and effort to fix a problem that I can't seem to hear. Maybe my middle-aged (ugh!) ears are just very forgiving of problems in the frequencies where others are hearing problems. ------------------ JDM '98 klipschorns, Infinity SM-120's (surr.) Dynaco QD-2 Sennheiser HD-580's Sony TA-F606ES int. amp. Sony ST-S550ES tuner Sony CDP-X33ES CD player Sony DTC-75ES DAT recorder Sony PS-LX510 turntable w/ Audio-Technica AT-216EP cartridge Akai HX-A3 cassette decks> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Rune, I have just returned from a 3 week vacation and it is still nice to hear that you still enjoy your type A crossover as I still do. I have compared the type A to my ALK and the type A is the clear winner all the way.I have done so by using the same Hovland 2.2mf capacitor from the ALK crossover in my new type A crossover and detected a very noticeable improvement especially in soundstage depth and even better definition. Trader, I have also prefered the ALK crossovers over my 25 year old AA's,but after that I've built the type A with highest quality parts,I have discovered what I was missing and I think that you should consider rebuilding your original type A crossovers with better parts and you will be amazed. BTW, I am about to sell my ALK crossovers,so if anyone is interested,kindly email me. Thanks, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freud Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 guy landau, I live in Paris, and i am building my "CORNWALLS", So, i need a crossover for them(like "ALK" or type "B" crossover). If you want i can buy them!... Some body with a pair of "K-33-E" woofers??? Best regards, Freud, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted September 19, 2002 Share Posted September 19, 2002 Freud, I am totaly in love with Paris and have visited your city few times. My ALK's were designed for the klipschorn,Belle and Lascala and I don't think that they can be used in your Cornwalls. If I were you,I would have rebuilt the original type B crossovers with better parts.I have used Solen 10 awg Litz inductor and Hovland capacitors and got an excellent results. Thanks for contacting me, Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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