NOSValves Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Docj, I was just looking at the schematic for the 222A and it doesn't have a Selenium rectifier because the output tubes are self biasing like the HF-81. The coupling caps you will need are 6 -.022 MFD @ 400V and 8- .047 MFD @ 400V you can use 600V caps also but no real advantage there. Don't buy just any old Coupling Caps some local shop has. At the very least get 715 Orange drops and I really suggest 716P's at the very least. Before you go out and buy all these parts for the amp bring it home and give me a call and I will walk you thru testing the caps and what not and then bringing it up on a variac. just shoot me a email and we will set up the time. email Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 I DONT prefer the Ceramic caps. Have I not been one of the biggest proponents of parts upgrades on this entire forum, much to the chagrin of some others awhile back (Does anyone remember the parts is parts debate last year)? Yes, EICO is surprisingly good even WITH the Ceramics. But I wouldnt put a Ceramic in the signal path in an amp I was modding unless held at gunpoint... As for substitutions, there are several options which I am sure we will go into. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanJ Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Craig, thanks for the part numbers. Ok, will not go with it as you all suggest. Will go ahead and order them from vactube. 6 capcitors, yes I remember the the schematic now with those all in a row. I will wait for the correct parts then Will pick up the variac today after work. I have an old crosley 5'ver upstairs that I wish I would of stepped up the voltage on first. Now I'm sure I'll be replacing caps. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Scotts came with Ceracaps in there stock form although I bet the 222a has Black Pyramids which are Mylar film caps I believe. Like I stated at the VERY LEAST get orange drops. To use a Scott amp reliably there is no choice but to change these caps period mark. If left in place its not a matter if they fail it is a matter of when !!! Craig Mobile, I find your statement to be absurd. "You would have to be held at gun point to use the part that comes stock in your favorite vintage integrated amp" I understand what your saying it just seems wild !!!! Oh and this was stated in a attemp to rib you so take it lightly please This message has been edited by NOS440 on 09-11-2002 at 07:58 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Craig, good subtle lead-in sentence to my section of your post. Besides the 716p, give the following some consideration: - Voltaire - Ambrose Beirce - HL Mencken - Mark Twain (essays) - Woody Allen - Samuel Johnson - Bertrand Russell ...with a chaser of PJ O'Rourke and Hunter S. Thompson. This would bring about a significant upgrade, in my opinion. As always, your mileage may vary. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanJ Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 MH, leave out Woody? True, he has some inkling of we humans and our nature but I just don't get much else from him. Just a personal opinion. I get the gut feeling I'm about 10 to 15 years younger than you all here? Am I? I'm 41 going on 20 again. I guess I say that since I'm after so many years, "smelling the roses finally" Bryan Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Mobile, I would think by now you would realise that I am straight forward and to the point !!! I pull no punches and say exactly what I mean ! I find you slamming 716Ps to be pretty funny since you suggested using them in my first Scott !!!! DocJ I'm 43 here and you might be suprised at most of are ages aren't far from you !! except mobile I think you guesses the right difference just in the wrong direction LOL !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Okay, Fine! You don't like ceramic caps in general! My fault! Serves me right for trying to call someone else's opinion. Shame! Shame on me! Well obviously, you still have a place to lurk. That's good, I hope you didn't aquire any sort of damage, like seawater in the Moondogs or something. Boy, your last post flew right over Craig's head. Have a good one, Kelly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanJ Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 How about some -Heinlein -Niven -Pornelle............................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 I stand by my earlier assertion that while there may be a Tube Asylum, this is the Tube Minefield. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Well to tell you the truth a quick glance over the list I saw Woody Allen and just figured it was another one a MH's attempt to be a Snot in a cute way. If it went over my head I'm sorry MH ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 11, 2002 Share Posted September 11, 2002 Oh on the cap subject Cericaps and ceramic caps are not the same thing. Just thought there might be some confusion there. Ceramic caps cost about 10 times less then cericaps in the 60s and today for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 Mike stated: "That's good, I hope you didn't aquire any sort of damage, like seawater in the Moondogs or something." You can take the seawater out of the moondoggie but you cannot take the moondoggie out of the seawater. Audiophiles and surfers both love their tubes. {For details see comments in "going going gone" Any other Moondog fans out there? "Perfect Sound Forever" http://www.furious.com/perfect/moondog.html -C&S ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 09-12-2002 at 12:13 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 Well I will admit it if NOS won't; MH's post left me confused. We were talking about cap's and he throws reference in to assorted individuals. Now given his mention of Craig's lead-in and its subtlety, I can understand a witty yet subtle response but this one has me baffled as to his intent: He mentions Voltaire who pursued enlightenment and tolerance. He then mentions Ambrose who was known for his angry and vitriolic nature. So is he saying NOS needs enlightenment? Or is he saying NOS is angry and vitriolic? Or is he saying NOS needs a general understanding of human nature so he can choose an appropriate path? In any case, I believe this may be the most subtle and thought-provoking SLAP I have seen. I now have a new hero and it is my mission to elevate myself to this level of insult or facetiousness. Well done MH. Unnecessary maybe, but well done. Boy, I will feel really silly if I got this all wrong and MH's post meant something completely different; but I couldn't find any caps named Voltaire or Ambrose. PS: I am lucky as I reached my Klipsch enlightenment years ago and although I learned to respect tube heads only in the past year, I am still only 37 - going on 21 mentally and 60 physically. ------------------ HT - Klipsch Synergy Premiere Audio - Heresy, KG4 This message has been edited by crash827 on 09-12-2002 at 04:41 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 Crash, I knew it was one of Mobiles subtle slams which I simply don't bother trying to decifer and really could careless. I would rather go straight to the meat of any given subject. I'm not here to play MH's games. This is a free BB and he can handle himself any way he pleases as all of us can. I don't need his approval or does he need mine. Mh always resorts to these cute little slams when someone question's his opinion. Me I just come out punching LOL !!!! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanJ Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 A question. Do I turn off my sub woofer with my system or just leave it on? Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 I would not call that post "cute" really. And to my mind, coming out "swingin'" is usually the result of nothing left but frustration and a bouncing ping-pong ball within the skull casing. Although there is something amusing about getting one's head taken off so cleanly it falls back onto the neck post, still intact but with a perplexed expression. For those brought to head scratching with that post, I was referencing some first class wits, known to turn a word or two with great perception, alacrity, and subtlety, with humor or an inkling of the aburdity of human nature. Reading always helps writing, especially when sourcing material of that caliber. Why Craig thought I was belittling the 716p, I have no idea. He is correct in that I did recommend this cap as about the least expensive good upgrade. Yes, there are far better caps around and I now think good oils would probably take it in the right direction, although there is debate on which oils (and some might find the oils too warm and a little less transparent - smooth and lack of annoying edge they do have - the best bring amazing transparency but $$$). Also, Tim Babb has some Auricaps in his amp that many really like and they do fit (Hovlands/Auricaps are more fragile to work with as well). And the cost does go up, unfortunately. Room is at a premium in that amp without modifying the bottom plate to extend away from the wiring, so you are confined. A few find the Orange Drops, even their best 716p, to sound a tad strident compared to better offerings (and not always the most transparent). Yet, Caps can be an expensive proposition and with these vintage Scott/Eicos etc. you have 8-10 or more to consider. For resistors, I like the Dales for an alternative as they seem pretty sweet and not too expensive. Generic metal films can sound more hard, especially compared to the carbon comps that bring that sweet sound that is rather addictive in these old units (but these things can drift with the outgoing tide). I have Tantalum resistors in my 2A3 amps, these replacing very high quality Caddock resistors. The tantalums are about the last thing from sharp and harsh. Not worth the ducats for a vintage swap, however. As for the EICO vs Scott mess, I really have to admit that both amps probably sound damn good. I have not heard anything bad about the Scott (we are talking in general terms considering the various models) and, like Craig, would recommend that amp and its various versions (some better than others) at the moment for the price as it seems to be a better bargain. I am not going to recommend one over the other any more as it just resuts in needless banter. BOTH makes have good points and a GREAT example of either will bring you so much closer than $1000 of modern push-pull amp of the likes of Jolida, ASL, etc. What you WILL get with the Jolida/ASL etc is new caps, resistors, etc, but not better quality per say, especially in the transformer department. I am not too taken with ASL's build quality, this from my own experience as well as some I trust that have taken them apart. kh ps- Doc, others disagree here, but I find the subwoofer to muck up a good thing, especially as the amp quality goes up. While good subs can go a long way to fixing this, most are not of the quality and while the bass might sound more pronounced, it of a less refined and musically intact nature. I find them great for HT but poor in a really optmized 2 channel setup. This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 09-12-2002 at 09:59 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanJ Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 I understand about the sub w/music. I use it for the old rock and roll The La Scalas do fine with classical music alone. I'm just wondering if I should shut it off or just leave it on? Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanJ Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 I've been watching the new HF-81 auction. Only 255? I'm just going to have to jump in now, hell no! Wife will never know since she'll only see one at a time?? Thank goodness the ck books are separate from my business. Two must be better than one. I could always use the spare at work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 DocJ, obviously we live in free countries, but how could I possibly compete against your budget? Wolfram This message has been edited by dubai2000 on 09-12-2002 at 03:37 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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