CECAA850 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 17 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Actually, the tapped horn is LESS EFFICIENT than the full horn That's counterintuitive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 40 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said: All 10 Hz. response did for me is to vibrate stuff down the hall, and even then VERY rarely, since examining the graphical data on AVS sites shows that the preponderance of output is above 20 Hz. for 99% of the movies. I find it wasteful to design and execute a 10 Hz. response. Good enough is good enough. Most cheap, direct radiators on the market barely reach 30 Hz. so doing 20 Hz. with a horn and 120+ db output EFFICIENCY, to me is the best way to OPTIMIZE sound reproductions. 10-20 Hz. response is EXPENSIVE sound effects that basically test the structural integrity of your house, second only in stupidity to BURP test of a van full of direct radiators pumping out decibel levels that rival a 747 jet a take off. Mega stupidity has different levels also. I think it was an old Home Theater Geeks episode where he talked to a sound producer and the guys basically said any movie content under 20hz is just artifacts that made it into the track on accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 19 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Actually, the tapped horn is LESS EFFICIENT than the full horn AND can have higher distortion unless you bandpass filter it, which is easy to do. All horn subs totally STOMP direct radiator subs, unless you have a roomful of those with kilowatts of amplifier power and the highest distortion of all. Not my cup of tea. Horns forever!! BTW, I just sold a pair of THTLP subs (6 ft. tall with an 18x24 footprint, like a double high Cornwall) to another forum member because I needed to go to a very slim cabinet in a way smaller room. Going from 18 foot wide walls down to 11 is not fun for a speaker dude!! I was referring to the downsides of the tapped horn and not the efficiency part. Bandpass filters wont remove distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, jason str said: I was referring to the downsides of the tapped horn and not the efficiency part. Bandpass filters wont remove distortion. Of course they will, just like they remove overexcursion below box cutoff in a Bass Reflex. Woofers "flapping in the breeze" produce no bass and HUGE IM distortion and can bang the voice coil against the frame. Un-reproducible frequencies below cutoff should be filtered out electrically with a high-pass filter at the very least, and Band Pass for tapped horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 is a glue joint sufficient or would you also use screws on a sub ? I am thinking there is a lot of vibration and pressure in the sealed version I am trying out and I am not looking at finish just now. Only function and reliability so would you use screws ? the wood is MDF. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, joessportster said: is a glue joint sufficient or would you also use screws on a sub ? I am thinking there is a lot of vibration and pressure in the sealed version I am trying out and I am not looking at finish just now. Only function and reliability so would you use screws ? the wood is MDF. Joe Wood glue or PL Premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Of course they will, just like they remove overexcursion below box cutoff in a Bass Reflex. Woofers "flapping in the breeze" produce no bass and HUGE IM distortion and can bang the voice coil against the frame. Un-reproducible frequencies below cutoff should be filtered out electrically with a high-pass filter at the very least, and Band Pass for tapped horns. Yes, filters can reduce distortion out of the subs capable bandwidth ( design dependent ). Remove was maybe a bad choice of words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHall Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 7 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said: All 10 Hz. response did for me is to vibrate stuff down the hall, and even then VERY rarely, since examining the graphical data on AVS sites shows that the preponderance of output is above 20 Hz. for 99% of the movies. I find it wasteful to design and execute a 10 Hz. response. Good enough is good enough. Most cheap, direct radiators on the market barely reach 30 Hz. so doing 20 Hz. with a horn and 120+ db output EFFICIENCY, to me is the best way to OPTIMIZE sound reproductions. 10-20 Hz. response is EXPENSIVE sound effects that basically test the structural integrity of your house, second only in stupidity to BURP test of a van full of direct radiators pumping out decibel levels that rival a 747 jet a take off. Mega stupidity has different levels also. Very well put. I’m glad to follow along the more well educated members and try to grasp what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, CECAA850 said: Wood glue or PL Premium. Titebond 3 ultimate wood glue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 1 hour ago, joessportster said: Titebond 3 ultimate wood glue Unless the sub is going to go outside or you're going to eat off of it there's no reason not to use Titebond 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 I've used Elmers wood glue on many projects as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 3 hours ago, jason str said: Yes, filters can reduce distortion out of the subs capable bandwidth ( design dependent ). Remove was maybe a bad choice of words. Nah, there's never a bad choice of words, just missing the rest of the specific story or information. This hobby requires precision, repeatability, and accuracy, but it does have a subjective component, which we all try to gain positive feedback with. Besides we are all still learning new things from others, which is the whole point of this Forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 8 hours ago, CECAA850 said: That's counterintuitive to me. It's less efficient because it's a smaller box for a given cutoff and it requires a different woofer driver than a full horn because there is no back chamber. I've never had a tapped horn that was more than 100 db/W (Othorn in my case) vs. 95 dv/W for the others that go lower. The Fitzmaurice Tuba HT's are well over 100 db/ Watt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 minute ago, ClaudeJ1 said: It's less efficient because it's a smaller box. I was thinking that if you had 2 horns with the same volume cabinet that the tapped horn would be the more efficient of the 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 minute ago, CECAA850 said: I was thinking that if you had 2 horns with the same volume cabinet that the tapped horn would be the more efficient of the 2. It requires a different driver to work, which is part of the efficiency difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 10 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Nah, there's never a bad choice of words, just missing the rest of the specific story or information. This hobby requires precision, repeatability, and accuracy, but it does have a subjective component, which we all try to gain positive feedback with. Besides we are all still learning new things from others, which is the whole point of this Forum. The information i was referring to was in my first post. The differences between a tapped horn and a fully horn loaded model as the exposed cone of the tapped horn increases distortion that cannot be passively filtered out in the folded horn. You know this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 10 minutes ago, jason str said: The information i was referring to was in my first post. The differences between a tapped horn and a fully horn loaded model as the exposed cone of the tapped horn increases distortion that cannot be passively filtered out in the folded horn. You know this... Yes, and I was referring to 2 different posts from 2 different people with my reply, hence the further confusion. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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