babadono Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Compressors on canned music? No. But I use DBX expanders and the downward expanders on my mixer all the time. Live music(karaoke) yea I could see compressors on that. Compressors definitely have a legitimate use on live shows or stuff you're trying to tame for recording purposes. So do you compress just the background or the dialogue or everything? Sorry for the thread crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Everything from the tv... Right now, nothing, as the compressor has something in the PS gone wacky (sounds like a cap gone bad with a LOUD 60/120Hz signal). Just not messed with it, so it is out and sitting on the floor. I was just thinking that most would like the dynamics for which Klipsch speakers excel. The La Scalas have such great imaging that I don't use a center channel yup.. , and it usually works fine. It's mostly just for the karaoke, and I can/could switch it out of the circuit. I try to use compressors very sparingly when recording, but that depends on the vocalist/musician/instrument. Sorry for the TC as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 I never use compressors in my home audio systems. We use those and limiters in the church because people accidentally drop live microphones and can make other accidental mis-adjustments and /or explosive sounds that could damage equipment and ears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Exactly! When the ladies are doing sing alongs, they don't know how to use a mic. My 2a3s feeding the HIIs are for playback only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Back to our regularly scheduled program.... Does anybody with a Xilica see gain reduction on the meter display even though you don't think you've set up any compressors/limiters? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 @rplace I got my old preamp hooked up and working this evening. My Xilica does not show any gain reduction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 11 hours ago, babadono said: Back to our regularly scheduled program.... Does anybody with a Xilica see gain reduction on the meter display even though you don't think you've set up any compressors/limiters? It will not start to reduce until you light up the red LED's, then it will start the reduction of whatever your settings are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 5 hours ago, babadono said: @rplace I got my old preamp hooked up and working this evening. My Xilica does not show any gain reduction. I think I've lost sight of what the goal is here. My first post about all the red LEDs was a concern that I had things hooked up or configured wrong. Reasonably sure things are hooked up right as the music sounds darn good. I believe I did have some configuration issues with the output of my Crown amp and gain settings of channels. I upped the output of the physical bass bin amp, cut back the gain settings in Xilica and now need to give just a tad more input from my preamp. I think, please confirm, those are all a step in the right direction. I also cut the mixer values to zero for output channels 5-8 which got rid of all movement on the meters for both the Xilica and Xconsole software. Next I mistakenly thought the "meters" button showed you the input and output levels. Clearly the meters on the right are labeled compression/limiters. So are we just trying to figure out why there is compression limiter activity? I connected to Xconsole and looked at the compression and limiter values. Based on other Xconsole settings I've observed when all channels have the same settings there is nothing set. See below. 20 hours ago, babadono said: Gain controls are logarithmic. By definition dBs are logarithmic. The good news is so is our hearing. So yes if you lower both LF and HF gain by another 10db they should track. Is this something I should do or at this point better to have less variables and leave well enough alone? Is there an ideal input/output I'm trying to reach? All green, most green? occasional peaks into the yellow/red. I seem to recall reading other posts where people can't get hardly any movement of the LEDs. I don't seem to have that problem so it makes me think I'm doing something wrong. Perhaps just my consumer, tube equipment? I get the general feel most of you active, 2-way guys are using all balanced equipment and solid state amps. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, rplace said: Reasonably sure things are hooked up right as the music sounds darn good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 @rplace, @Chris A The limiters on all your output channels are set to -20dBu.????? I was not able until now to enlarge your screen shot and get a legible picture. Is this correct? And is this by intent or a mistake? I believe they should be at +20dBU. +20dBu is 0dBFS to the folks at Xilica. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 4 hours ago, canyonman said: It will not start to reduce until you light up the red LED's, then it will start the reduction of whatever your settings are. I don't think so. The threshold of the compressors/limiters are adjustable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 They should be at 20 dBU. I see the last .xdat file that I returned to Rich it was set at -20 dBU. Rich...you should set those four channels to 20 dBU. Since I never use the limiters (except if someone asks me to set theirs to protect something like a K-77 tweeter diaphragm), I never change the default settings. That's probably why I don't pay much attention to the values. I've found that the limiters in these DSP crossovers are very good at protecting low-power tweeter diaphragms since the limiters will limit any outgoing waveform on the first cycle that is outside of their setting. Just ask @Cantilope how well they work. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, babadono said: @rplace, @Chris A The limiters on all your output channels are set to -20dBu.????? I was not able until now to enlarge your screen shot and get a legible picture. Is this correct? And is this by intent or a mistake? I believe they should be at +20dBU. +20dBu is 0dBFS to the folks at Xilica. You are correct the compressors are 20 and the limiters are -20. I've not changed anything figured they were either defaults or what @Chris A thought was necessary. When I observed other settings like the PEQs when they all had the same values they seemed to me to be defaults. 2 minutes ago, Chris A said: They should be at 20 dBU. I see the last .xdat file that I returned to Rich it was set at -20 dBU. Rich...you should set those four channels to 20 dBU. Okay, I'll change those and take some more measurements with the latest file you sent me. One thing I've noticed Chris, is that it has gotten overall quite a bit quieter with the last two files. That is I have to turn the preamp's volume up to get it to a reasonable level. When I purposely try and make it LOUD the LEDs on the Xilica are yellow/red. I hear what I think is some distortion. Crackly voices, overall muddiness. Could this be the reason for reduces volume overall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 minute ago, rplace said: Could this be the reason for reduces volume overall? It could be the reason for the distorted sounding channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 minute ago, rplace said: , is that it has gotten overall quite a bit quieter with the last two files. Yes limiters will do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 I'm off with the laptop to do some tweaking. Once again, I TRULY appreciate all the help and hand holding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I think your front panel display will start acting more like everyone else's when you adjust the limiters. There is a vague reference in the Xilica documentation that the display is referenced to the limiter threshold. To wit: 5. Peak Level LED – Indicates the current peak level of the Signal: Signal, -12dB, -6dB, -3dB, Over/Limit. The Input Limit LED references to the device's maximum headroom. The Output Limit LED references to the threshold of the output limiter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I see where the first xdat file that I sent to you had -20 dBU instead of 20 dBU. I'm chasing down where that error might have originated. There are two functions that I wish could be switched off within XConsole: compress and limit. For pro applications, I can see why they're there. For home applications, they could have "dis-enable" buttons within XConsole and the front panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I was just going to say something similar. The limiters are to protect power amps and speakers in commercial installations. The limiter says nothing over value X is getting through. This protects the amps and speakers from someone getting way to happy with the main output fader. Consequently it "clips" any signals over that X value. This could sound quite harsh and may account for the artifacts you are hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 -20 to +20, what's 40 db amongst friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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