Heresy III

[YK Thom]

Not sure if this link will work. It is from Harbeth. I was actually amazed and very surprised when I went through it with my headphones.

 

https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/forum/the-harbeth-line-up-m20-m30-m40-1-p3esr-c7es3-shl5/can-t-decide-which-harbeth-is-right-for-you/1659-bass-response-how-deep-should-my-speakers-go-for-a-lifelike-sound-at-home?1842-Bass-response-how-deep-should-my-speakers-go-for-a-lifelike-sound-at-home=

[helomech]

This seemed like possibly the best thread to post this. 

 

I recently damped the midhorns of my H-IIIs at the recommendation of a Klipsch modder who swears by this tweak. It basically involves wrapping the midhorn in constrained layer bitumen sheets (think Dynamat). I used Stinger Roadkill brand, as back in my mobile audio days, I found its performance superior.

I do notice a slight improvement but it's not nearly as dramatic as was alleged by that member. 

 

Before I catch flak for modding these speakers, please understand that I did so only because over the last 1.5 years, I've begun to detect some consistent weaknesses. Most notable of these is a coloration/chestiness to the midrange and vocals. These are $2K speakers after all, and in stock form, can't match the midrange clarity or refinement of the ~$3K^ speakers I've owned/auditioned. For example, my $3300 retail JMR Bliss Silvers trounce my H-IIIs in midrange refinement. So I figured the midhorn damping might improve this some - it has, but it's not a massive difference - definitely a slight improvement in lyric delineation and decay.

 

If anyone else here has tried this mod or similar mods, I'm interested in your feedback. I think these speakers can be taken a bit further but I'm not prepared to start swapping out drivers and such. 

[FTB]

Consistent weaknesses in the speakers. Could that be described as a "fuzzy" or "raspy" sound?

 I have had my Herseys replaced by Klipsch and though better than what I first had(I guess) ,they sound fuzzy/raspy/like there is no real sound with some music at times(is this the delineation and decay?).  I've been disappointed with these speakers since, well, day one.

[Steve.]

I've had my H3 for a little over a year and they are crystal clear without a hint of harshness....    running them with a 40w PP tube amp.   

 

I enjoy these speakers so much, I just bought my  brother a pair of Heresy II that look like they came out of a time capsule....  they sound great too.

[fmalloy]

On 10/29/2018 at 1:56 PM, Westcoastdrums said:

"Because 58Hz is a heck of a lot deeper then what I thought it would be" 

 

YES

 

On 11/11/2018 at 9:43 AM, YK Thom said:

There is actually surprisingly  little bass below  50hz in most music. Below that for the most part (especially if you are listening to rock or country), what you get is sub bass.

 

People are so used to seeing "20-20,000Hz" everywhere they expect their speakers to go down to 20Hz. And you are correct that *real* musical instruments - string basses, contrabassoons, tubas, timpani, etc. are well in the range that the Heresy reproduces. One notable exception would be a pipe organ. It would be hard pressed for any speaker to reproduce a 32-ft length pipe resonating.

 

When anyone says the Heresy has weak bass, I just play a well-recorded classical piece with an ff hit on the bass drum and that's that. The first movement of Copland's third symphony or the third movement of a Tchaikovsky 6th would do. It's extremely tight bass with absolutely no boom.

 

Now if you're a rap/hip-hop fan, those are artificial bass notes created by a synthesizer/drum machine. A computer can generate a waveform of almost any frequency, but they are not natural musical instruments. For that, just get a powerful subwoofer.

[Islander]

With Heresys, a properly set up sub does improve the sound, and has beneficial effects even into the midrange.  A 4-string bass guitar goes down to 40 Hz., and a 5-string bass guitar goes down to 30 Hz.  Certainly, the bassist won't be playing in that range all the time, but the rhythm section, the bass and drums, is the foundation of the music, so if you're not hearing their contribution to the music in a realistic fashion, you're not hearing all of the music.

 

Music is improved with the help of a subwoofer, but for movies, it's almost mandatory.  Many movie soundtracks, action movies in particular, have lots of low-end sound, which will not come through most speakers, even pretty big ones.

 

As for the crossover frequency, keep in mind that speaker frequency response rolls off gradually.  It's not like the speaker (any speaker) puts out equal volume at all frequencies, with full power right down to the listed low-frequency limit.  That 58 Hz. limit on Heresy IIIs is at a -4dB level.  The frequency response rating on nearly all speakers is plus or minus 3-4dB.  The Heresy IIIs probably start to roll off at a point much higher than that, so it makes sense to set the subwoofer hi-cut well above 58 Hz.  Keep in mind that subwoofers roll off near their limits or settings, too.  A sub set to cut off at 50 Hz. is probably pretty weak above 40 Hz., so it's good to dial in lots of overlap, because the speaker and the sub will both be in the lowest output areas of their frequency response.

 

I'm guessing a bit about the H3 bottom end roll-off point, but I'm much more familiar with the La Scala and La Scala II, since they've been my main speakers for years, and I've done a fair bit of testing to integrate my sub with them.  Although the La Scala IIs are claimed to go down to 51 Hz., the output starts to decline at 100 Hz.  Accordingly, the subwoofer hi-cut is set at 120 Hz.  In my particular setup, that results in the most even low-end output, with the shallowest peaks and dips attainable, from 200 Hz. down to 25 Hz.

 

You don't have to get a sub, but nearly any speaker costing less than $30,000 or so benefits from the added low-end support from a subwoofer.

[Panelhead]

  I went the other direction in rolling in a sub with LSii. Cross at 60 Hz. Use 18 dB/octave high pass and 6 dB slope for low pass. This extends the subwoofer output to try to balance the falling output of the LSii. 

[MEH Synergy]

6 hours ago, Islander said:

You don't have to get a sub, but nearly any speaker costing less than $30,000 or so benefits from the added low-end support from a subwoofer.

That's quite a statement there.  I don't know that I woild agree.  Also crossing subs as high as 120 hz?  You don't find that boomy/very directional from the subs?  I understand what you are saying about speakers rolling off and can see where you are going with that mindset.  I would strongly prefer not to use a sub with my 396s, but I found a sub to be a MUST for my needs.   Volume matched and crossover over correctly, quality sub(s) can certainly add to the experience in music listening.   I found the bass very satisfying from the heresy IIIs.  Although I was tempted to add a sub (and I did), I found I preferred them without despite frequency response on paper and I listen to plenty of music with very extended bass.   For the music I like that doesn't have said extended bass (and even on some of it) those heresy IIIss are AMAZING speakers and a damn bargain at prices they can be had at.