Tomtastic Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 At some point, (looking at the date of the pics from my phone early April '18 I decided it was better to go thicker. 1/2" is just too thin! We can do better than that right? So I doubled them up for 1", nice, solid and heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Looks good. Solid like the original will pay off...nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtastic Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Couple more showing the dual layers. Inside, top, side and back views. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Perhaps it’s just me being dense, but I’m having difficulty visualizing the rear horn path. The area directly behind the woofer seems to expand before going through the slot at the bottom to expand again to use the corner walls, somewhat like a Klipschorn. Is that correct? The attached plans help me to understand. Is this really a Klipsch design as indicated at the bottom of the attachment? It clearly differs significantly from a Klipschorn. What say you Jim @JRH? In any case, it’s an extremely cool project. Please keep the updates and photos coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtastic Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, DizRotus said: 5 hours ago, DizRotus said: Perhaps it’s just me being dense, but I’m having difficulty visualizing the rear horn . path. The area directly behind the woofer seems to expand before going through the slot at the bottom to expand again to use the corner walls, somewhat like a Klipschorn. Is that correct? The attached plans help me to understand. Is this really a Klipsch design as indicated at the bottom of the attachment? It clearly differs significantly from a Klipschorn. What say you Jim @JRH? In any case, it’s an extremely cool project. Please keep the updates and photos coming. Yes, basically that's right, and every info I've read suggests it was a PWK design, patent around 1954, IIRC. The K-horn is going to be more efficient since it's a longer horn path but for this pair I used a full-on subwoofer and amp, so the lower Aristocrat bin is handling up to 125hz or so (with dedicated amp) and the mids 80hz and up. If I stuck with normal driver for Aristocrat bin, I'd have to rework how the mid/HF would be arranged, not like this at all. So I guess this would be like a 2/3rd's horn or something. It's not fully horn loaded. The bottom is a folded horn, the HF is compression horn, the mids are cone woofers, sealed enclosure, a concept design I guess. I started with using the original plans for the build which called for 1/2" wood, but really should be thicker 3/4" at least. Got a few more pics on the build. Edited February 7, 2019 by Tomtastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtastic Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 Riser boards installed. Bottom board for top section installed and drawn out for cleat locations. Went ahead and installed feet at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtastic Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 All hands on deck (tool arrangement). Lower cleats installed. Top and sides glued and drying. And one last shot before the tops went together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtastic Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) Finally, with the tops attached. Then the front board cut out. From there it was just the rear top board and added some trimming for the amps. More sanding and finishing. Staining, lacquered. Then time to put the speakers in. Final pic, when I had them done, I remember stopping in to demo some 802's. They sounded pretty good, base was pretty tight and fairly thumpy and deep, treble and mids didn't really impress me, seemed average. And way overpriced. Edited February 8, 2019 by Tomtastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtastic Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 And after everything was in, but before I had the top grills made and bottom grills installed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 2/7/2019 at 7:55 AM, DizRotus said: Perhaps it’s just me being dense, but I’m having difficulty visualizing the rear horn path. The area directly behind the woofer seems to expand before going through the slot at the bottom to expand again to use the corner walls, somewhat like a Klipschorn. Is that correct? The attached plans help me to understand. It's obviously no horn at all, merely a rear-firing ported cabinet. The slot expands several-fold unless the box is placed firmly in a corner at which time the only "discharge" area is that of the triangle left at the top. Even if placed loosely in the corner, the best you'd get is parallel surfaces a short way along the wall prior to a minimal further expansion. Would certainly be beneficial but not much of a horn, and not over much frequency range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRR Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Looks like a Transmission line to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtastic Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 Link to article on the original Aristocrat Yes, it's a horn. PWK designed it and he thought it was. Placement is 1-4" from corner. Or near a wall with some loss in bass efficiency. The original Aristocrats were crossed at 800hz but I'm using 80hz high pass for mid and I have the bass driver set somewhere around 140hz, so there's some overlap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 That PDF consists of scanned images so no easy text searches are possible. A quick read-through uncovers no mention of the Klipsch name in any reference or capacity. Conversely, on page 7 it says "The original Aristrocrat, engineered by Electro-Voice almost three decades ago..." Also on that page are the placement suggestions: "the unit can be placed as far as 4 in. from the corner walls of the room. The minimum spacing that can be used is 1 in. with a nominal suggested value of 2 in." At any rate, the primary low-frequency driver interface with the room is obviously as that of a direct radiator. Nonetheless it's a cool project. Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I would say it is a rear loaded horn ... with the horn exiting the rear instead of the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Marvel said: I would say it is a rear loaded horn ... with the horn exiting the rear instead of the front. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtastic Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, glens said: That PDF consists of scanned images so no easy text searches are possible. A quick read-through uncovers no mention of the Klipsch name in any reference or capacity. Conversely, on page 7 it says "The original Aristrocrat, engineered by Electro-Voice almost three decades ago..." Also on that page are the placement suggestions: "the unit can be placed as far as 4 in. from the corner walls of the room. The minimum spacing that can be used is 1 in. with a nominal suggested value of 2 in." At any rate, the primary low-frequency driver interface with the room is obviously as that of a direct radiator. Nonetheless it's a cool project. Thanks for sharing. I've had a difficult time determining if PWK actually drew up the plans himself on the Aristocrat and other EV folded horn designs, if I had to guess I would say no. I would say at the least, back in the 50's when EV was licensing the designs, anything that was corner-loaded was Klipsch-designed because of the patents. There was one brochure on the Aristocrat and a few others that had mentioned they were Klipsch licensed designs (trying to find it). I believe there may have been an arrangement for EV to sell the corner horn enclosures in exchange for selling EV drivers to Klipsch. It's a rear folded horn or back horn and corner horn since it uses the corner. So a rear (or back) folded corner horn. Ah, here it is but the image scans weren't high quality. Even the design plans list Klipsch design, again, maybe because at the time corner horns were Klipsch domain. Odd, since PWK didn't invent the corner horn, merely perfecting it. http://www.itishifi.com/2010/01/electro-voice-and-licensing-from.html Edited February 8, 2019 by Tomtastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 The closest known Klipsch design of which I’m aware is the Rebel — not one of PWK’s favorite efforts. @Tomtastic don’t take any of this personally. I love your speakers and your preservation of a classic EV offering. Is it a horn or something else? Who cares? What’s in a name? A rose is a rose . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtastic Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, DizRotus said: The closest known Klipsch design of which I’m aware is the Rebel — not one of PWK’s favorite efforts. @Tomtastic don’t take any of this personally. I love your speakers and your preservation of a classic EV offering. Is it a horn or something else? Who cares? What’s in a name? A rose is a rose . . . . Also the Shorthorn, which when I first saw the kit speaker at the thrift store that's what I thought it might be. So I quickly looked up the shorthorn on my phone to get an image to compare but I quickly discovered it wasn't that for sure but I hauled it home anyway because I was curious and then found the Aristocrat. And on another subject, I finally found the 15" version of the Aristocrat, I read a post about it at one point a year ago and couldn't find the name on it. It's The Royal. It was the same as the Aristocrat but larger for a 15" driver, but I suspect they didn't sell them very long. Maybe only in the early 50's. Posting a link to it here so I can find it again. There's some pictures of it there. http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/electro-voice-royal-corner-horn.400244/ Yes, it's been fun most of all. I can't wait until my next project but I'm not certain what the bass horn will be. La Scala, or something else. Edited February 9, 2019 by Tomtastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 5 hours ago, Tomtastic said: Ah, here it is but the image scans weren't high quality. Even the design plans list Klipsch design, again, maybe because at the time corner horns were Klipsch domain. Odd, since PWK didn't invent the corner horn, merely perfecting it. http://www.itishifi.com/2010/01/electro-voice-and-licensing-from.html So that gal in the bottom right corner of the first image stepped out of the shower to tinkle? A bath, I could see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevedel Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Have I really been away that long? I will report my progress and send pictures when I drag my Aristocrats out of hiding. Right now I'm only waiting on one JBL N1200 crossover. I have a pair of JBL 175DLH horn/lens/drivers and just received a pair of D-131, 12 inch bass drivers. Same as the JBL 130 but with a 12 inch cone. Everything should be nice and cozy on assembly but I'm certain it will fit together. The other components are a pair of slightly modified Dynaco Mk IV tube amps. A McIntosh C-24 preamp, given new life by Paradyme McIntosh in Sacramento. A flawless little MR67 does the FM duties. The local collage jazz station puts out an extremely good signal. That, and with NPR broadcasting classical music, there is no reason to look for anything else. Which is good. With the exception of a couple of religious stations and their original music, there is little to find, here in the Central San Joaquin Valley. The wait is almost over. "Ma, have you seen my camera?" foto courtesy of E-bay 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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